...or reminisce about a favorite meal/libation you enjoyed 37 years ago while apprehending the Aurora Borealis at winter solstice in a northern Finland resort that overlooks the Russian Landscape across the border...
How did you know?!!! Joke. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, May 5, 2020, 5:27 PM Steven A Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 5/5/20 4:38 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > > "We record/observe *all* your behavior down to the minutest level... " is > impossible. > > Some of my work (not so much these days) has been in light-field capture > as well as holography... so my metaphorical target domain comes from a > fairly specific technical perspective. > > Of course "recording/observing *all* of your behaviour" is as impossible > as it is impossible to "record all impinging interfering light waves as > silver halide crystals on a photographic plate", so even a high-quality > hologram is just a "fuzzy facsimile"... the point isn't fidelity as much > as it is that a lot more *qualities* of information are available to BE > recorded than we normally record (e.g. focusing nominally parallel light > rays reflected off an object through a lens onto a similar photographic > plate). The hologram doesn't necessarily contain more data (limited by > the grain size of the silver-halide film and the quality of the optical > elements moving the light around as well as the wavelength of the light) > than a conventional photograph, it is just *qualitatively* more > interesting/complex than the impingement of a planar wave onto a plane (or > the integrated fusing of hundreds of such captures from hundreds of lenses > or pinholes) (think phased array radar in the optical spectra). > > I defer to your broader/deeper experience and awareness of conventional > psychology, but I suppose what I was alluding to is the difference between > a "gestalt" and a "diagnosis"? A good intuitive therapist, NLP > practitioner, car-salesman, "psychic", etc. (I contend) can "read" a LOT > more than a bureaucrat screening for a particular purpose. I'm simply > borrowing Glen's reference to "holographically" to elaborate the nature of > that. > > Meanwhile, I agree strongly with you that a great deal of your internal > state (second by second) is operationally opaque to me and everyone else > who might try to observe, including Marcus when he wires you up with > Neuralink hardware or locks you into an fMRI while you fantasize about your > next car or reminisce about a favorite meal/libation you enjoyed 37 years > ago while apprehending the Aurora Borealis at winter solstice in a northern > Finland resort that overlooks the Russian Landscape across the border. I > also know from my own musings and reminiscings that *my* memories can vary > from time to time (and from an objective observation like a microphone or > camera capturing those aspects of a situation). > > > > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Tue, May 5, 2020, 4:13 PM Steven A Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 5/5/20 3:04 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: >> >> Dammit, Nick. I can and frequently do spend hours planning, remembering, >> composing emails, fantasizing about my next car, etc without exhibiting >> any remarkable behavior beyond eyeblinking, touching my face (don't!), >> crossing and uncrossing my legs. We've been through this before but what >> is my latest plan about what to do when my auto lease is up? No one knows >> but me despite your claim that I don't have private access to these kinds >> of things. >> >> And following (weakly I am sure) Glen's reference to "holographically", I >> believe that if we record/observe *all* of your behaviour down to the >> minutest detail, we can learn a LOT about that inner state. If we had >> that data from the *last* time you approached buying a new car (maybe years >> out) we might recognize the specific patterns of leg-crossing and >> eye-blinking and chair-leaning that go with fantasizing about that >> muscle-car inspired anti-proton powered 6 wheel-drive hub-motor flying car >> you have been jonesing on! >> >> I'm somewhat with Glen (as I understand him in this conversation) on the >> ideation that inner and outer is somewhat mutable. Sometimes the 6-rotor >> flying drone-car I fantasize (and blame on Frank) flitting around in is >> *part of* *me* and other times it is what I interface *to* and *it* >> interfaces (mostly) to the air (and sometimes to the water, the ground, and >> unfortunately a tall tree here and there). When I am composing a message >> *to* this august body named FriAM, I often think of youse alls as >> "external" to me, but if I'm talking to one of the philistines in my life >> who do NOT spend all their time talking/thinking about these kinds of >> things (whatever these kinds are), I sometimes think of myself as being >> *of* "the FriAM" rather than "in the FriAM" (or is that FriAM pan?). >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:36 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi,Glen, >>> >>> Careful. Isn't the formulation "inner world" entirely contradictory? >>> >>> N >>> >>> Nicholas Thompson >>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >>> Clark University >>> [email protected] >>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ? >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:50 PM >>> To: FriAM <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve >>> >>> However, I think we can come up with a (maybe someday) testable >>> hypothesis based on hidden states. In principle, if EricC's principle is >>> taken seriously, the inner world of a black box device will be *completely* >>> represented on its surface (ala the holographic principle). Any information >>> not exhibited by a black box's *behavior* will be lost/random. >>> >>> This implies something about the compressibility and information content >>> of the black box's behavior, right? >>> >>> On 5/5/20 10:38 AM, Prof David West wrote: >>> > This does not advance an argument against the possibility of a >>> computer thinking — merely an assertion that "behavior" is not a valid >>> basis upon which to argue that they do. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ☣ uǝlƃ >>> >>> .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- >>> ... .... . ... >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam unsubscribe >>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> >>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- >>> ... .... . ... >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> >>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> Frank Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> 505 670-9918 >> >> .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... >> .... . ... >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... >> .... . ... >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > > .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... > .... . ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... > .... . ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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