Dear Friam, This reply was unintentionally sent here. I was answering Nick's "for what mill?" question and I didn't notice that he asked it in an email to the Group. I apologize.
Frank On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:37 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > For which mill: understanding the patient's unconscious processes. > Anything the patient produces including dream accounts, feelings toward the > therapist (positive and negative), conscious fantasies (sexual or > otherwise), accounts of childhood experiences, crying, rages, forgetting to > pay the bill. You get the idea. It's all grist for the mill it's the most > idiographic possible investigation of a human psysche I suspect. > > The transference including idealizing and devaluing the therapist, > defiance, rejection, dependency, longing for merger, etc is the most > important grist. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Tue, May 19, 2020, 5:22 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Well, yes, but for which mill?? >> >> >> >> If one accepts dream reports as proxies for dreams, what is the universe >> to which one is generalizing? >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> >> Clark University >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:41 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> [email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden >> >> >> >> Memories and the accounts thereof are considered valid dream material and >> it is well known that they have an imperfect relationship to the dream. It >> doesn't matter. Even if a person makes up.a dream; it is grist for the >> mill. >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 19, 2020, 2:29 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> This is very close to what I was going to propose, except I intended to >> say something snarky like: We *already* do nomothetic studies of dreams. >> The results of which are gathered and used in sleep labs all over the >> country. >> >> But it sounds like y'all are talking about doing a nomothetic study of >> what people *say*, not what they dream. When someone talks about the >> content of their dreams, can you trust them to tell the truth? ... to know >> the truth? I'd argue, no. They're making up a *story* about what they just >> experienced. >> >> The same is true about, say, self-reporting alcohol consumption ... or >> whether or not you'd help a person in an argument with an abusive spouse. >> Narrative is untrustworthy. >> >> On 5/19/20 1:20 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> > I settled on soliciting from my colleagues around the country as >> variable a set of song samples and then published on what was true of all >> of them. The extremes of that sample also gave us grounds to say what a >> mockingbird “could” do. I suppose this was “nomothetic” research, but it >> also had an idiographic taint. >> > >> > Could this sort approach be used with dreaming? >> >> >> -- >> ☣ uǝlƃ >> >> -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . >> ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . >> ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > -- Frank Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918
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