and.... "Sometimes a w/blink is just a w/blink?"
> Nick, > > You said — "I don't think anybody who was familiar with eye movements > would ever take a wink for a blink." > > I can quickly think of hundreds of examples of this not being true. > One, I watched a man lose a lot of money in a poker game because he > misinterpreted a blink (sans signal content) as if it were a wink > (with signal content), thinking that the spasm of the eyelid was a > "tell" a kind of "winking to one's inner self." > > But the interesting problem is with winks that are winks. How can you > tell, absent context and cultural experience, if the wink were > 'sincere', 'conspiritorial', 'seductive', 'parody', 'meta-parody', > 'meta-anti-wink', etc. > > davew > > > On Sat, May 16, 2020, at 11:29 AM, [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi, David, >> >> >> >> While I have great admiration for Ryle, and use his notion of levels >> of action gratefully, I think he and Geertz are just dead wrong here >> in their premise. I don't think anybody who was familiar with eye >> movements would ever take a wink for a blink. But the basic point is >> still right: a wink implies higher level of organization that a wink >> and a fake wink implies a higher level of organization still. Or, I >> think, Geertz would call it "deeper". "A deeper description". >> >> >> >> Now on to ethology. As usual, I am going to punish your interest >> with an article. Here you get the entire history of ethology >> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281346463_Ethology_and_the_birth_of_comparative_teleonomy>, >> is capsulated in three laws -- about 10 pages or so. Not a bad a >> bargain, eh? In fact, if you just read from section 4.0 on, you will >> get the examples, which contain most of the impact. They are very >> like the turkey/polcat example that you provide, one I had never >> heard before! Perfect! >> >> >> >> Please see larding below. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> >> Clark University >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Prof David West >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 10:38 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [FRIAM] Behavior?? >> >> >> >> Glen made a comment, "humans don't have intention when they wink >> sarcastically." This triggered a memory of Clifford Geertz channeling >> Gilbert Ryle. Just before seeing Glen's comment I was reading a book >> on Influence and encountered some ethology and together they prompted >> a whole series of questions about behavior. >> >> >> >> First a quote from Geertz/Ryle >> >> >> >> "Consider two boys rapidly contracting the eyelids of their right >> eyes. In one, this is an involuntary twitch; in the other, a >> conspiritorial signal to a friend. The two movements are, as >> movements, identical; from an I-am-a-camera, "phenomenalistic" >> observation of them alone, one could not tell which was twitch and >> which was wink ... Yet the difference, however unphotographical, is >> vast. ... the winker is communicating ... 1) deliberately, 2) to >> someone in particular, 3) to impart a particular message, 4) >> according to a socially established code, and 5) without the >> cognizance of the rest of the company. That however is just the >> beginning. Suppose a third boy winks in an amateurish, clumsy, and >> obvious manner — he is parodying the wink ... not conspiracy, but >> ridicule is in the air. Complexities are possible, if not practically >> without end, at least logically so." >> >> >> >> Then the ethology material >> >> >> >> "Turkey mothers are good mothers—loving, watchful and protective. >> Virtually all of this mothering is triggered by one thing: the >> "cheep-cheep" sound of young turkey chicks. For a mother turkey the >> polecat is a natural enemy whose approach is to be greeted with >> squawking, pecking, clawing rage. If a stuffed model of a polecat is >> drawn by string to a mother turkey it evokes the appropriate >> offensive behavior, but if the same model has a hidden tape recorder >> that emits the "cheep-cheep" sound the mother not only accepts the >> oncoming polecat, but gathers it beneath her. >> >> >> >> This kind of "fixed action pattern" can involve intricate sequences >> of behavior, such as entire courtship or mating rituals. (see >> attachement). The interesting aspect of this is how the sequences are >> activated — with a "trigger feature;" e.g. a particular shade of red >> or blue chest feathers, but not a perfect replica of a rival bird >> absent colored chest feathers. >> >> >> >> Then my questions. >> >> >> >> 1- Is a "behavior" always a movement plus an X-factor? >> >> 1A. is the X-factor other nuances of movement, e.g. rippling >> eyelashes on the contracted eyelid? >> >> 1B. is the X-factor an intentional signal? or is it "meaning." is >> intention required? >> >> >> >> 2- Is behavior compositional? e.g. squawking, pecking, clawing >> behavioral "atoms" compose to an anti-polecat behavioral composition? >> (thinking of some kind of analog with atom --> molecule --> cell -- >> organism) >> >> >> >> 3- If meaning | signalling | intention is a required aspect of >> behavior, from whence it cometh? >> >> >> >> 4- is "behaviorism" necessarily a subset of semiology? >> >> >> >> 5- If behavior is compositional, are there rules or regularities of >> composition? >> >> >> >> 6- Can culture be seen as a collection of allowable patterns of >> composed behaviors? >> >> >> >> 7- Is it necessary to have a well developed discipline of what is >> observed outside the black box before attempting to infer what is >> within and whatever that might be, its relation to what is observed >> outside? >> >> >> >> davew >> >> >> >> -- --- .-. .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. >> . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... > ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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