https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6935a2.htm
The above might be of particular interest. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 10:25 PM Tom Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Tkx. > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 10:03 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Tom >> >> https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/index.html >> >> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 10:00 PM Tom Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Frank, do you have some pointers on the MMWR? >>> Thanks, Tom >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 7:35 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> It has become known today that the MMWR has been altered for political >>>> reasons. At least they got caught. >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Frank C. Wimberly >>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>>> >>>> 505 670-9918 >>>> Santa Fe, NM >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 5:11 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It is the reactive grievance culture that I think needs to be >>>>> attenuated. Run some diagnostics, analyze, reflect. Or at least find >>>>> someone new to talk to. Push some different information through that >>>>> soggy wetware. Appreciate people that are trying to do their job. >>>>> Consider the possibility that individuals (and that means you, Joe Moron) >>>>> don't really matter in the big scheme of things. And so on. If >>>>> nothing >>>>> else just STFU for a minute, would you? I can totally see the Rick Gates >>>>> type people: Everyone is guilty and unworthy, so the only thing left to >>>>> do >>>>> grab and handful of cash and walk away. >>>>> >>>>> How many dozens of times have I been told to lower the dimensionality >>>>> of what I am trying to communicate up the management chain? If managers >>>>> can't grasp a complicated story, the worker bees and especially the >>>>> Trumper >>>>> types certainly won't get it either. In my mind democracy is more about >>>>> defining what is worthy about civilization and culture and finding basic >>>>> some basic consensus about who we want to be. If that isn't possible, >>>>> then let's take off the gloves and get to it, you know? The business of >>>>> running things for the most part has to be delegated, just like almost >>>>> every service and product we use is delegated to others. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Smith >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:17 PM >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID >>>>> >>>>> Without picking directly on Dave, or using him as a proxy for or maybe >>>>> just a whipping boy for the folks who continue to imagine that having >>>>> Donald Trump and his gang of openly sycophantic and corrupt supporters in >>>>> his cabinet and in Congress is actually a *healthy* thing for this >>>>> country, >>>>> I think the question of whether humans in general and US Citizens at this >>>>> time, are capable of anything outside of an A) Mobocracy; or B) Oligarchy >>>>> thinly disguised as a Representative Democracy. >>>>> >>>>> I've been guilty of being a very poor voter-citizen by one standard or >>>>> another and order 1/3 or more of my fellow citizens probably have a story >>>>> where I am a total moron/idiot because I don't agree with one or more of >>>>> their trigger-issues. >>>>> >>>>> And talk about persuasion/governance-by-fear: As a registered DTR >>>>> (declines to respond == independent) voter I've been getting a barrage of >>>>> nasty garbage mail about the presidential election from the Republican >>>>> Party of New Mexico... maybe they don't waste the postage on registered >>>>> Democrats? Mary doesn't get these. You can imagine the crap they >>>>> insert >>>>> into their imagery and verbage, but if I didn't have any other source of >>>>> information (or more to the point, primary evidence of Biden and his >>>>> allies' record and public demeanor), I'd think he (and >>>>> they) are everything just short of child molesters who are in the >>>>> streets themselves beating up cops with their own night-sticks, and that >>>>> the fires in Oregon are being started by them personally in Portland and >>>>> blowing the embers out into the forests (that Republicans would rake into >>>>> safety if Democrats would let them). The photos are perspective >>>>> foreshortened and blue caste to make you feel like the figures shown (e.g. >>>>> Biden, Bernie, Kamala, AOC) are vampires looming over you the way Trump >>>>> stalked and loomed over Clinton at the debates. >>>>> >>>>> I don't know *any* Republicans who are afraid of COVID... well... >>>>> except for my hypochondriac sister and family who seem to have slowly come >>>>> around to have a perspective that aligns pretty well with that of the >>>>> Dems, >>>>> yet very well may still help (try to) Vote Donald and his cronies right >>>>> back into power (just because?). Sturgis the community was only 60% >>>>> against holding the annual HD/Trump rally there and only about 10-20% of >>>>> the usual attendees declined this year. That doesn't sound like fear to >>>>> me. I don't hear Biden's campaign chanting "Lock them up!" even though >>>>> it >>>>> seems likely that The entire Trump family , his staff (present and >>>>> deprecated) and some of his cabinet might well be subject to criminal >>>>> charges without the current obfuscation, misdirection, and direct >>>>> obstruction the (implied/implicit?) power of the office of the President >>>>> seems to allow for, hiding the evidence. >>>>> >>>>> I *do* think that a solid 51% up to 60% of the population *are* very >>>>> scared at the quality and quantity of damage to the "America" he promised >>>>> to make "Great Again" if he gets another 4 years... The Trumpsters like >>>>> to throw out "Trump Derangement Syndrome" left and right (and Left and >>>>> Right) in the attempt to characterize anyone who is offended by anything >>>>> (much less everything) Trump does. >>>>> >>>>> My enemy's enemies are not my friends, but it IS heartening to see the >>>>> significant backlash against Trumpism by many non-liberal, non-Democrat >>>>> factions. The Lincoln Project might be the most well organized/funded. >>>>> THEY are throwing fear and loathing at Trump... and I"m sure plenty of >>>>> LIberals/Democrats love seeing that... and I suppose I'm just glad I don't >>>>> have to get my own hands dirty (possibly?) overstating Trumps outrageous >>>>> behaviour. >>>>> >>>>> The next 2 months (and 2.5 beyond) will surely prove to be >>>>> interesting... >>>>> >>>>> - Steve >>>>> >>>>> On 9/12/20 12:42 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>> > When the populace won't tolerate this the populace won't get this. >>>>> But mostly people are morons. >>>>> > >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Prof David West >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 11:33 AM >>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID >>>>> > >>>>> > Nothing in my post was intended to malign Fauci, nor attack his >>>>> credibility. I did attempt to call him on a specific mistake (one he may >>>>> have later corrected). He is not among the "powers that be." >>>>> > >>>>> > I totally stand by my accusation that "governance by fear" seems to >>>>> have become the default for setting policy — fear of pornography to >>>>> justify repressive Web policies; fear of drugs to justify repressive >>>>> regulation on use; fear of crime to justify militarization of police; fear >>>>> of WMD to justify Iraq; fear of terror to justify TSA, fear of extinction >>>>> to justify carbon regulation; fear of COVID to justify lock down. >>>>> > >>>>> > I have a real problem with this trend. One, it denigrates and >>>>> devalues the populace as too dumb to understand the real issues, the >>>>> messiness of incomplete but increasing knowledge, and the complexity and >>>>> provisionality of solutions; two, any error, however minor, has the power >>>>> to call into question the whole; and three it is ultimately >>>>> self-defeating. >>>>> > >>>>> > davew >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, at 10:42 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote: >>>>> >> Never ascribe malice (or governance by fear) when incompetence will >>>>> >> suffice. -- paraphrased from some pithy archetype somewhere >>>>> sometime. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I was totally with you until the last 2 paragraphs, though I >>>>> haven't >>>>> >> checked your facts. In my posts about "credibility", I tried to lay >>>>> >> out the idea that someone like Fauci is NOT properly labeled >>>>> >> [in]credible because of any single act/statement or even the truth >>>>> >> status of one or several acts/statements. Credibility comes from >>>>> >> consistent *care*, including revisiting things later and making >>>>> >> attempts to abut or correct previous acts/statements. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Fauci shows such care. Therefore, Fauci is credible, even if he's >>>>> made mistakes. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> When you talk about ruling through fear, the real culprit is, as >>>>> >> EricS pointed out, the political pressure on people like Fauci to >>>>> >> render opinions *aligned* with some party line. To accuse Fauci of >>>>> >> such in light of the recent news from Woodward's book and the >>>>> >> pressure on CDC rank and file is disinformation. You're focus on >>>>> the >>>>> >> victim makes your post incredible disinformation, even if (or >>>>> >> especially if) the first part of your post is factual. It's a >>>>> typical >>>>> >> abuse of facts to foster a false narrative. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> But it's also important to realize we're all, always, susceptible >>>>> to >>>>> >> such faulty reasoning. Attempts to be diligent and correct in such >>>>> is >>>>> >> the source of credibility. I was once accused of being a spammer >>>>> >> because I posted too much, even though my accuser admitted the >>>>> >> *content* of my posts were on topic and not spam, the very volume >>>>> was >>>>> >> offensive to him. This is yet another example of normal people's >>>>> >> small appetite for verbosity. Pithiness, pseudo-profound bullshit, >>>>> >> and false narratives are all aspects of the same beast. It's >>>>> >> impossible to harden ourselves to such risk without holing up in >>>>> our >>>>> >> echo-chamber dungeons, surrounded by others who've "jumped over the >>>>> >> bar" to be included in our in-group. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On 9/12/20 7:44 AM, Prof David West wrote: >>>>> >>> Sloppy reporting, and sloppy pronouncements — yes, you Dr. Fauci — >>>>> have contaminated the discussion about COVID and appropriate responses. >>>>> Specifically with regard equating or improperly substituting IFR with CFR. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> IFR = infection fatality rate >>>>> >>> CFR = case fatality rate >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> A "case"requires symptoms. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Seasonal flu has an IFR of 0.1% and a CFR of 2-3% >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> COVID has an IFR of 1.0% [initially WHO and CDC stated a higher >>>>> >>> percent] and a CFR of 2-3% >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> For whatever reason, Dr Fauci and other official statements have >>>>> compared COVID's CFR to the flu's IFR to assert the "deadliness" of the >>>>> disease and to justify draconian measures. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Naysayers, compare CFR to CFR to assert that COVID is no more >>>>> deadly than the flu. They are correct. With the "TRUTH" on their side, >>>>> they >>>>> rail against the lock down. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> There is a justification for social distancing and masks in the >>>>> difference between IFR and IFR coupled with the higher infection rate of >>>>> COVID and the flu( a lot of flu immunity exists), plus the "infectious >>>>> phase" of 12 days (COVID) instead of 2 (flu). >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> In my opinion the "powers that be" have such a low opinion of the >>>>> average intelligence of the populace that they misrepresent the data in >>>>> order to scare the crap out of people in order to get them to comply with >>>>> directives instead of making the reasonable and correct, but more nuanced >>>>> and complicated, factual argument for their policies. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Governance by fear seems to be standard operating procedure these >>>>> days. 9-11 yielded the TSA abomination (expensive, ineffective and >>>>> annoying). Can't wait to see what COVID inflicts — especially with the >>>>> talk >>>>> of "forced vaccinations" I have heard bandied about. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>>>> >> GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>>>> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >> >>>>> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>>>> > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>>>> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>>>> > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>>>> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> >>>>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> Frank Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> 505 670-9918 >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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