I guess that any political violence that results from the election won’t really compare to COVID-19. Projected deaths in the US for the end of the year are like US WWII casualties. So if people shrug off COVID 19 whats a little shooting in the streets? At least the danger can be seen. By all means sit in your rocking chair with your rifle. Good self isolating!
> On Sep 13, 2020, at 8:39 AM, glen∉ℂ <[email protected]> wrote: > > It's also important to note that conservatives tend to feel/see fear more > prominently than those open to new experiences. Marcus' point about reactive > grievance is an indicator. It's not the conservative tendency to be afraid > that generates the grievance culture, though. Conservative fear is > well-placed for things like hardening networks, computer security, etc. ... > domains where it's necessary to have some serious threat thinkers on the > team. What generates grievance culture is *laziness*, the inability to > continue working on the problem, a giving up, throwing up one's hands and > yelling about liberals or "bad neighborhoods". > > Dave's fear is right. We should all, always, be Antifa, anti-fascist, in > whatever forms fascism might take. But in fighting fascism, it pays to stay > on point, to talk about the work, to do the work, and not spin off into rants > that do no useful work. So, the 1st part of Dave's post, identifying the > difference between IFR and CFR is good work. The 2nd part is self-indulgent > ranting. And to be clear, I'm a big fan of self-indulgent ranting, obviously > ... as long as we all recognize it when we see it ... especially when I do it. > > I'm very happy they came down hard on Reinoehl, even if the Marshals and > Sheriffs tend to be right wingers. To all those who'd fight fascism, leave > your guns at home. To paraphrase Marcus, the individual doesn't really matter > in the big scheme of things. So, carrying a hand gun to "protect yourself", > even if it's because you have kids at home, remains stupid, whoever carries > it. > > >> On 9/13/20 8:20 AM, Steve Smith wrote: >> Dave - >> I am trying to take your disclaimer at face value: >> /Just observations, not aspirations nor convictions. / >> but there is something about your analysis of who will fight and who will >> flight that seems inverted: >> A) If Biden wins: flight will become the majority response of the losing >> side. Massive influx of people to what Brigham Young envisioned as the >> "State of Deseret." Home and self defense coupled with preparation to >> "repel" the invading feds will be cultural themes of the day. >> B) If Trump wins: fight will become the majority response of the losing >> side. Violence in the streets, mostly focused against police, but also >> against anyone and anything deemed to be "pro Trump" in any vestige. All the >> pomp and pageantry of a revolution, but without a cause and lacking any kind >> of purpose. >> I don't have Glen's skill at proper Steelman construction, so what I present >> here is probably an amalgam of straw and steel... >> A) I see no strong evidence of the conservative/right being prone to >> "flight".... "hunker down" maybe, but not "flight". The Donald has been >> *very* proud and out loud to list off "his people", the "strong people"... >> law enforcement, military, farmers, ranchers, construction workers, and >> aping Putin, "the bikers". He touts the second amendment with vigor while >> using the first amendment as a shield of convenience... which does not sound >> a bit like "flight". Most of his supporters I know personally have at >> least a little more swagger and bluster and implied intimidation than their >> counterparts... they show no shame around gerrymandering, voter >> suppression (playing "poll observer" while sporting assault-style weapons?), >> and celebrating a thin win via electoral college vs popular vote as a >> "Mandate" (in 2000 and 2016). None of this reads to me as the ingredients >> for "flight" unless this is all bluff? >> As to flooding Deseret (Utah and surrounds all the way to the Canadian >> border through Idaho and bits of Eastern OR, Western CO and northern AZ?)... >> I can't imagine the folks already there welcoming more than their "friends >> and family" and maybe a handful of *their* friends and family, but only as >> long as they bring more dry goods and ammo than average? >> B) Traditionally I see very little propensity for violence among the >> /Liberal Elite/ and /Liberal Snowflakes /who "hate Trump"... I have heard >> over the decades (starting with the 2000 debacle?) plenty more liberals >> threatening to "move to Canada" as a response to what they see (for pretty >> good reason) as an injustice and an aberration/undermining of Democracy, >> than Conservatives... (though I have a few Righty friends who have created >> hidey-holes in third world countries where they can hoard their food and >> guns in the event of an Apocalypse). >> The social unrest whose sharp tip has included direct confrontatation of >> Law Enforcement reflects the distance to which people have been pushed into >> a corner. Compare a Waco or Ruby Ridge or similar to the hundreds of >> police-brutality (unto murder) cases that BLM is in reaction to. I was >> shocked by the *singular* shooting of a Right Winger in Oregon by a Left >> winger, and not at all surprised when the Left Winger got shot dead during >> apprehension while the *several* Right-Wing militia types who shot >> protestors armed with at most, a skateboard, were taken very gently and in >> some cases allowed to walk away. Maybe your embedding in a >> violent/reactionary leftist movement in the '60s informs you more to the >> likelihood or nature of what a leftist reaction might look like. I think it >> is probably *good* that my gun-nut friends with MAGA hats (nearly always >> screwed on way too tight) might be a little afraid that those they would >> like to intimidate with violence or the >> threat of it might have their own venomous bite if cornered. >> Maybe a virulent mass uprising by the Left (or to me "center") if Trump and >> his cronies mangle the election into something unrecognizeable is >> aspirational on my part... but I can't think of a single Righty friend or >> acquaintance of mine who doesn't own a gun or 10 and way too much ammunition >> for anything but a zombie apocalypse, and has made intimations that they are >> itching to use them. This is VERY rare in my righty friends... almost to >> nil. >> - Steve >>> On 9/13/20 8:47 AM, Prof David West wrote: >>> The entire campaign, as near as I can tell, is nothing except scare the >>> crap out of your base in order to defeat the other guy. Both sides are >>> guilty, albeit with differences in luridness. >>> >>> Once you have appealed to, and convinced your side of, fear and loathing, >>> there is no easy off-switch. This pretty much guarantees that the losing >>> side will react to the results from fear and nothing else. The fractures >>> will become permanent precisely because they are grounded in irrationality >>> and there is no path back from the brink. >>> >>> The classical response to fear is "fight or flight." >>> >>> If Biden wins: flight will become the majority response of the losing side. >>> Massive influx of people to what Brigham Young envisioned as the "State of >>> Deseret." Home and self defense coupled with preparation to "repel" the >>> invading feds will be cultural themes of the day. >>> >>> >>> If Trump wins: fight will become the majority response of the losing side. >>> Violence in the streets, mostly focused against police, but also against >>> anyone and anything deemed to be "pro Trump" in any vestige. All the pomp >>> and pageantry of a revolution, but without a cause and lacking any kind of >>> purpose. >>> >>> Just observations, not aspirations nor convictions. > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
