So, here is the logic of my argument, S.A.I.I.
PREMISE: It must in principle be true that ever thought, deed, feeling, etc
that we experience—no matter how bestial or high-minded, no matter how
voluntary or inadvertent-- is accompanied by some relation between an organic
event and an environmental event, or some organic event that occurs
spontaneously. I don’t know quite know what “spontaneously” means but I am
slipping it in there to keep Glen off my back.
THEREFORE: That an act has some organismic concomitant cannot provide a means
for discriminating between a guilty act and a non-guilty act.
Let us say that I go to pick up my anti-depressant pill and instead the
pharmacist issues me a Murderous Rage Pill, whose trade name is Marsipan. I
climb to the top of the cathedral bell tower and mow down Bleeding Heart
Liberals by the dozens. At a bench trial, my attorney pleads that because I
had taken the Marsipan, and Marsipan clearly causes an organic change in my
brain, I am therefore not guilty of my actions. The district attorney objects
to the defense, claiming that the crucial dimension here is the relation
between my taking the pill and my intent. He provides evidence that the
pharmacist and I are both members of a secret anti-BHL group and that I had
full awareness of the consequences of taking Marsipan when I took it. The
judge rules that I am indeed guilty of the act, but that he will entertain a
defense of justifiable homicide. He says, “Somebody had to do it.” I am
released.
Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
<https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 11:07 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Shorthands for Brain-stuff
Perhaps there is brain chemistry and pathological brain chemistry and the
latter is associated with pathological, criminal behavior, it would be useful
to the courts, I assume, to know about the defendant's brain. This is probably
not possible at present and might not be admissible.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, N
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 10:13 AM Eric Charles <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
During last Friday's meeting, there was a discussion about brains and behavior.
We were somehow discussing murders and Bruce brought up an example of a friend
who helps determine (using EEG and MRI) whether the behavior of the murder had
an "organic" cause. People with an organic cause go to mental-health
facilities, those would get the death penalty (roughly speaking, obviously
there in-between scenarios). Nick quickly pointed out that was some variety of
crazy dualism, because all behavior has an organic cause. A few back and forths
revealed a two things that seemed worth capturing:
1) IF we are really talking about "does the behavior have an organic cause",
THEN Nick is surely correct, and all the EEGs and MRIs are doing is telling us
how obvious/easily-detectable-by-current-means the organic cause is. In some
future world, where our instruments have much, much finer resolution, we will
be able to find an "organic cause" for every behavior, which means the whole
process as currently performed is just silly.
2) However, if that talk of organic causes is just a useful shorthand of some
sort, the process might be perfectly reasonable, just poorly specified.
3) At some point Bruce said that we were trying to determine whether the person
was capable of premeditation, and that seemed (to me) to create a window for a
perfectly reasonable process, while still acknowledging Nick's point.
4) IF we were interested in "can the person premeditate" and we had separate
research showing that certain types of obvious (with current technology) EEG
and MRI results were highly correlated with an inability to sustain
behavior-directed-towards-a-goal, then we could reasonable use EEG and MRI
results to abduct whether or not the person in question was capable of
premeditation.
5) Of course, if we had a video of the person premeditating, none of the brain
scans would be necessary or relevant --- this would be an example of the
broader principle that, when asking questions about psychology, behavioral
evidence beats anatomical evidence. However, absent such direct evidence, it is
perfectly reasonable to look for known correlates of behavioral patterns,
including neuo-anatomical correlates.
6) Some weird things happen to our thinking if we forget that we are using the
anatomy to make inferences about behavior-patterns. The whole process makes
sense if the thing we are interested in is ability-to-premeditate, and we are
using the neuro-anatomy to guess at that, because that keeps us clear that the
neuro-anatomy is not itself premeditation or the lack thereof. The whole
process is incoherent if we think some mass killers kill because of the way
their brains are, but others mass killers kill and their brains have nothing to
do with it. THAT SAID, it can be a useful shorthand to talk as if we are
interested in the neuro-anatomy itself. The useful shorthand is not only much
quicker in a conversation or in writing, it also adds a false sense of
definitiveness to the scientific findings (which is useful to the scientist),
which in turn adds a false sense of definitiveness to the legal proceedings
(which is useful to the legal system). Challenging the shorthand therefore
feels like a challenge to the basic functioning of science and the legal system
that accepts such science.
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