Marcus, I really like your wave function notion - it is very Buddhist in its essence.
davew On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, at 9:39 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I would prefer it be modeled as a wave function and that people resist the > urge to take unnecessary observations. I’m from another generation, though. > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Merle Lefkoff > *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2021 7:51 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Talent and Moral Luck - Steelman attempt > > Maybe I missed this earlier, but this thread might be more lively if it > considers the latest gender conversation: the fluidity of gender as a form of > cultural identity. I have to practice constantly referring to several of my > granddaughter's friends as "they", not "she" or "he" or "her" or "him." > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:18 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >> Steve, >> >> Well, when good threads are bent, you and I will bend them. >> >> Let me complete my thought: There are two kinds of feminism here, right? >> [Merle, please be kind.] One claims that women are not different, and >> therefore should be treated equally. The other claims that women are or may >> be different but that males’ and females’ natures are to be valued equally. >> I have always leaned toward this sort of feminism. But I see now that, >> insofar as it captures every woman I meet in a stereotype, this sort of >> feminism is itself sexist. Every time I meet a woman, I engage in the >> following abductive-deductive logic: >> >> This person is wearing a skirt (say) and has long hair (say). >> This person is probably a woman. >> Women are less likely to be aggressive A-holes than men, >> Therefore, I (probably) can relax around this person. >> >> There is no escaping the sexism of this logic. >> >> I listen every week to a podcast, *Strict Scrutiny, *which begins with the >> aphorism: >> >> I ask no special favor for my sex; I ask only that you take your feet off >> our necks >> >> I was raised near the end of a rural road during WWII. My only chum, from >> about 1 year to adolescence was a girl. After the War, my parents moved to >> Boston. Before we were separated, we had a long chat about gender, she and >> I, and agreed, sadly, that I was *lucky* to be a guy. >> >> Nick >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> Clark University >> [email protected] >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2021 10:24 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Talent and Moral Luck - Steelman attempt >> >> >>> nst> Sorry. You missed my point. It was—YPTE—introspective. I was >>> noticing that I could not believe that a world without women was dreary >>> without being a sexist. >>> >>> nst> Probably not that interesting a thought if one is under 50, or 60, or >>> 70, or perhaps even 80 >> and I submit to all that the main point of the storyline is the >> sorry/not-sorry (unintended/unexpected/yet-predictable) consequences of >> using violence (one of the most egregious types of levers). >> The "dreariness" of a world without women would seem to be eclipsed by the >> personal grief of *virtually* every male on the planet losing his >> wife/mother/daughters/sisters/female-friends overnight (in the personal) and >> the abrupt if delayed (by a remaining lifespan) existential grief of the end >> of a spectacular (if clearly flawed, as demonstrated by the central theme) >> species. Maybe a (very few?) fully psychotic misogynists found it a >> pleasing condition (in which case I "blame the Mother" ;^) ) >> Unlike most post-apocalyptic storytelling, the misery is not (overtly) >> miserable health crises (nuclear holocaust) or marauding bands (though they >> did feature) or competition for exhausting resources, or retreating from an >> angry/disappointed "mother earth", but rather a simple but profound >> "absence" and incontrovertable "end of humanity", leaving the men of the >> world to contemplate (or not) how they treated women before they all went >> away. >> <blatant Moralizing> >> If Marcus' nihilist view that "it is all levers" is more true than not, it >> explains why this grand experiment of "civilization" seems to be collapsing >> into a cesspool of it's own making, under it's own weight. Or it's own >> hubris. Or under the self-perpetuating seduction of vengeance and >> retribution: (don't click if you hate poetry) The People of the Other >> Village - Thomas Lux >> <https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48485/the-people-of-the-other-village> >> My parents taught me (mostly by example) that punishment of children was at >> best a necessary last resort, resulting from and reflecting upon a failure >> of good parenting leading up to the need for acute correction. They were at >> least a *little* more direct/vocal about the same principle in public life, >> that our criminal justice system *only* existed, with it's myriad attempts >> at exacting justice without revenge and finding clever forms of "punitive >> retribution" to at least appear like "natural consequences" (not a term in >> parenting vocabulary at that time quite yet, but practiced by my parents and >> a few others I knew). >> Our current "Lord of the Flies" scene in DC (and across the country) may >> require all kinds of exacted punishment to re-align elements of society to >> where we can live together in relative peace, but to not acknowledge that >> the mere entertainment of the likes of Donald Trump as a national leader >> represents an abject failure of our culture to "make sense". The calls for >> removal/impeachment/censure/disbarment are all reasonable triage actions to >> minimize continued damage, even if they are in many ways "too little too >> late". But I am saddened as I hear a great deal of the rhetoric on the >> topic armatured around *retribution* and *vengeance*... >> Self-Righteously yours, >> - Steve >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > -- > Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. > Center for Emergent Diplomacy > emergentdiplomacy.org > Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA > > mobile: (303) 859-5609 > skype: merle.lelfkoff2 > twitter: @merle110 > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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