I should have added, in the previous post, that the odd thing is that I know 
from the earlier exchanges that you already know this, and take some pride in 
following it.

> On Jan 27, 2021, at 10:37 AM, David Eric Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> An even bigger inhibition comes if how you are doing matters to me, and I 
> would rather contribute to helping that than to dragging it down.
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2021, at 10:29 AM, Prof David West <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> Nick,
>> 
>> "I would hate it if some Good Government A-hole like me would start 
>> dictating what could our not appear on FRIAM."
>> 
>> A "government A-hole" is already there, albeit indirectly. All kinds of laws 
>> against myriad different types of post. Plus, via tech puppets, vast swaths 
>> of 'speech' / 'postings' are prohibited from appearing, even in "private" 
>> fora such as FRIAM. And when rule 230 is essentially eliminated, it will get 
>> much worse. Not to mention the excess prohibition of any type of "hurtful" 
>> speech that will be coming in the months ahead — all prompted by government 
>> A-holes legislating.
>> 
>> But the biggest inhibition on what can or cannot appear on FRIAM arises from 
>> the majority culture and the self-censorship of those sensitive to it.
>> 
>> davew
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021, at 5:40 PM, [email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Right, Marcus.  That's where I ended up, too.  While I need to IMAGINE that 
>>> you can understand me, in order to write some of what I write, the fact 
>>> that you don't, in the short run, doesn't matter.  The illusion of you 
>>> attentively listening has broken many a writer's block.  I would hate it if 
>>> some Good Government A-hole like me would start dictating what could our 
>>> not appear on FRIAM. 
>>>  
>>> You are in the unenviable position of agreeing with me. (};-\)
>>>  
>>> However, I do wonder what some of those people would say if we were better 
>>> at engaging them.
>>>  
>>> Nick
>>>  
>>> Nick Thompson
>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,bta9UWO0tN3h5jdaTwk3lVb6V2StIFgDn8R4YlJvylk2j2NV0QTwoEqVLuV_SiMM-GgMLLo5VNi8CE0-zKlFovQfSZlSC0MwI0seCIAWDLo,&typo=1&ancr_add=1>
>>>  
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
>>> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 4:03 PM
>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acronyms
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I'm not sure who you are accusing of what, and it doesn't matter.   Fwiw, I 
>>> suppose I follow  a few underlying principles by default, unless I am being 
>>> paid or whatnot:
>>>  
>>> 1) If someone is motivated to make a point or understand some topic, as 
>>> there was some indication in some cases, then if some muttering is alien to 
>>> them, they'll bother to puzzle it out or ask without being petulant about 
>>> it.
>>>  
>>> 2) The burden is not on the speaker/sharer unless the speaker especially 
>>> cares that the topic be understood and perhaps acted upon.  Say, if the 
>>> speaker is engaging in political advocacy, or defending some claim where 
>>> they have some skin in the game.  
>>>  
>>> 3) Electrons are cheap to move around and attention can be modulated.
>>>  
>>> Marcus
>>>  
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
>>> On Behalf Of [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 11:03 AM
>>> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acronyms
>>>  
>>> Well, generally that is the paradox.  But the narcissism I am talking about 
>>> is INTRA group narcissism  -- writing a post that one knows damn well only 
>>> 2 members of the group will understand.   We are a sufficiently broad group 
>>> that I imagine that if we developed a language understood by most of us, it 
>>> would also be understood by a lot of other people. 
>>>  
>>> But there is value to narcissism that might be lost if we tried to 
>>> standardize.  That you all understand me is an illusion that helps me to 
>>> write, and when I write, thoughts happen that I did not plan on happening.  
>>> Even if NONE of you understood, that would be a gain for me.  I think many 
>>> of us write to the list in this delusional way, and I can't claim that 
>>> that's altogether a Bad Thing.
>>>  
>>> Nick
>>>  
>>> Nick Thompson
>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,ESdb80SJH_TwaTmvG9Uk5oZhrH-1Bhnrw7bS0eoiFMmvuv2zb7fbD06amSmSye5OF2rkvWZJEgpzLcIMjr_XZQXhsR76-FhwrdsNK0m5_Fy2&typo=1>
>>>  
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
>>> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 12:46 PM
>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acronyms
>>>  
>>> IDK, man. This contribution rings a bit hollow. Jargon, insider jokes and 
>>> words, etc. all serve group cohesion. Coming from Nick, who sporadically 
>>> talks of FriAM as important *as a group*, including attempts to formulate 
>>> some threads as coherent presentable things, it seems good, 
>>> generalized/popularized, communication is antithetic.
>>>  
>>> But it *does* bode well for treating forum posts as public essays rather 
>>> than intra-group chatting ... which I've argued is the case. A flaw in my 
>>> argument, that those who disagree with me have yet to point out, is that 
>>> despite being publicly available on Nabble, it's not really a public forum. 
>>> It's not widely read. We *do* use obComplexity jargon just to titillate 
>>> each other. Etc. Perhaps the biggest obstacle to viewing these posts as 
>>> public essays is that we don't have a standard set of rules (like Frank's) 
>>> posts are expected to follow.
>>>  
>>> So, the classical mathetists among us will argue that you can't have your 
>>> cake and eat it. Either we're a group of insiders, a tribe, or this is a 
>>> publication medium which should have some associated rules. Perhaps that's 
>>> the paradox Nick's after?
>>>  
>>> On 1/26/21 10:19 AM, [email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > This correspondence has been an example of it self.  Narcissism is the
>>> > enemy of communication.
>>> >
>>> > I suppose there is SOME sense in putting obscurities in email blasts to 
>>> > the list and clasping to your bosom anybody who happens to understand 
>>> > you. (I did that with my recent supervenience post and got one answer 
>>> > that was tremendously helpful)  It’s like hitchhiking, then;  you only 
>>> > need one ride.  But while it makes some sense, as a general strategy of 
>>> > communication,  isn’t it a bit pathetic, after all? Isn’t there some 
>>> > paradox in communication that is designed to be exclusive?
>>>  
>>>  
>>> --
>>> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>>>  
>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam 
>>> <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe 
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,4Yq4mq6umHv5DPZWp_-e19YW3whoK-dUXamlBfC6QeNxXDtQGROe2CEgVV8X6RDnTwcy7M94SbdWseGhD7piUZM24TPry4NqjUnJGl9l&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,icadyRhtRGJoV6JiK8gp3s0w4GDW1bGF41i-iQj6hc27su8mSWN-jF69ge-TO7O2cV8JKTGUUQf54FOmxDaDY8Fj9e06Z-ldM7FIeLURDRgAcQMmmA,,&typo=1>
>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>>>  
>>>  
>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam 
>>> <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe 
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,riieHgsfqHh5JBppecesYYuTVIT-LY58yOyppW4mDXlGX3d_zGHwIOw9U-BCvUZ3Ij9FjB0brRqHclfl29BGyWJuzFuyfKP60skzzVYy0RQsE1z6N-u1RUo,&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,zF2coinsQr-5hiGT9dQGbQEEkipjLQFwKsRB7e5Ff4tQU2k0zdYt4pbPkUEc4NaOHjp_JFbR3Amn_EZmM0ijUAknklICtXPSf6QZXc-lwyI,&typo=1>
>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam 
>>> <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe 
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,NkpQsefUtLwRAaVodlfZN80ftMO7fX85t0gayTk1xp_WQzfhse5HHzZ71kLeBUofkekTKBNEDZxXm0_vk-S4buw1fDiN-Z_X1B3WS8FZ7UaZI7H3A_oaA8ds230,&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,wpFYTZwwCmueMcNTgF5l1ptUsErWAp9smYBbVM76DCzPxb40z6yitnuXIXnEKunJv0Tb0j8FWnEME7HcY9dKyoFjWLUhD9HRxkTXlduTEDoIYR9eRLcTMq1gQw,,&typo=1>
>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,HYINfR4Q-Mv6cjWPbhJXTVyF0Ho6b_wZ3SqYjTIjq9Ur03ShZr8rw58Cj1cEWXtx3WW7QDisc54dy4GEpAba2s7Q0SglOj-x0NuWUzJLk0Si5WG6Yo3e7Scd2Q,,&typo=1>
>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,HMyltMS4warffJCSSje8SznsRrUzFzOs5Ee_q2XuTgqXAXMGv_cLBNfvWi99Spm4WBOmAYb3SbCLp2EyH4fIZmaq3O79cuLncQpQh2JCdNyqXv7TuRBQlGOjw6G6&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,otecZDBavHpcXhlXQOK3h9RvJHdmPXo8gQ8x0auvB3wx_V6plKWb4m0GvfRXrqQGoLxSqiHtsG6fs2CNhpXCXD7vFaOfbLyPKzcIycUyj3TAPY9vCURFrEmsyw,,&typo=1>
>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>>> 
>> 
>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam 
>> <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>
>> un/subscribe 
>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,BpF6JbBu5OlFY275-myeu77uXOVavcN3du8ETfv02pnE3GpAh7lWqhLm8WVYfQq71yDT29cOKBbtu3Ygmc-d02FOeLXcJjtjyM9KChauchaDEFOj_Yg2iw,,&typo=1
>>  
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,BpF6JbBu5OlFY275-myeu77uXOVavcN3du8ETfv02pnE3GpAh7lWqhLm8WVYfQq71yDT29cOKBbtu3Ygmc-d02FOeLXcJjtjyM9KChauchaDEFOj_Yg2iw,,&typo=1>
>> FRIAM-COMIC 
>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,64BPDCj8S0PFtZC7g0OuqLMPcfiMmSIt7RlckQ-i7S0UU03voQyWGmgvQi-aznQd82Jn_rY82nAh4AlJ0oHndiQH-iC8FBaE-YdSf3Cf1TtK&typo=1
>>  
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,64BPDCj8S0PFtZC7g0OuqLMPcfiMmSIt7RlckQ-i7S0UU03voQyWGmgvQi-aznQd82Jn_rY82nAh4AlJ0oHndiQH-iC8FBaE-YdSf3Cf1TtK&typo=1>
>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/

Reply via email to