Re: [FRIAM] lurking

Sun, 07 Nov 2021 18:23:40 -0800 


On 11/7/21 12:02 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:
There must be some kind of “Back to the future” movie that can be made out of this.  Doyne Farmer in Vegas all over again, but with current-era AI in place of toe-operated computers. 


Yah!  Surely Casinos can't begin to restrict computers(phones)/earbuds, 
etc.  on the gaming floor.



Strange coincidence that my sister went to Kindergarten with Vance 
Packard (Norm's brother) in Silver City long before they all became 
eagle scouts and then the Chaos Cabal.  We moved away the next year and 
I doubt I ever met any of them back then.   I came to LANL just before 
(I think) Doyne came... I seem to remember that Norm was there for a 
summer...  and soon came the (in)famous CA conference...   As I remember 
it the game of interest (aside from Life, what with Conway in 
attendance) was GO with a lot of speculation about the implications of 
local vs global "intelligence"...   I was intrigued by HashLife and it's 
implications for finding structure at many scales... I still hope for 
someone with more follow-through than I have to implement a more 
redundant but "thorough" space-time decomposition (an N-1xN-1 kernel 
over the 4 positions at each "zoom" level).



Regarding poker.. I played some low-stakes in college and saw there were 
two things to take in:   the main technical skill was to simply play 
less poorly than the other players at the table and that was entirely 
overshadowed by the social-engineering games of bluffing, etc.   The 
very simple game-theoretic aspect of not depleting your own stake before 
you catch a "lucky streak" going your way was also a good 
understanding.   I played with my "boss" and a number of peers at the 
time and realized that it was more about jockeying for position at work 
and drinking beer than it was about winning/losing.  I think the most I 
ever lost/won was on the order of $20-$40 which in those days was 
roughly 1-2 shifts wages... a LOT if I joined them weekly... too rich 
for my blood! I still feel that *technically* playing well really means 
just playing less badly.   Blackjack being even more obviously so?




Yikes.




On Nov 7, 2021, at 1:56 PM, Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote:


My inclination would be to invest in standoff biometrics (e.g. 
Eulerian Video Amplification) and then find the best poker playing 
code.   It ought to be possible to automate and perhaps get rich in 
the process.

*From:*Friam <[email protected]>*On Behalf Of*Eric Charles
*Sent:*Sunday, November 7, 2021 7:42 AM

*To:*The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
<[email protected]>

*Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] lurking

I DID read all the thread so far... but I'm curious how we got to one 
of the starting points: "as cringy as it may be for some dork to be 
proud of their Poker prowess"
I am somewhat satisfied with my Poker mediocrity, certainly not proud 
of it... but if I met someone who was ACTUALLY startlingly better 
than I am, and they were proud of that, I wouldn't find it cringy. 
(Ditto in my other hobbies, like Aikido.)
I guess if I met someone who had a slight edge in their drunk-buddy 
home games, and they were super proud of THAT, then i would find it 
cringy. (Ditto someone who's the best Aikido student in their small 
dojo, but who's obviously not more than that.)
When I see academic work on game theory, it's usually of lower 
quality than what the good poker players are doing these days. 
Mastering the game is crazy hard, and being able to sit down and 
implement a coherent and winning strategy for 40-80 hours a week is 
not easy. So... why would that be cringe?
On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 1:42 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> 
wrote:


    Ok, part of the story is knowing what is really needed for
    reproducibility as a function of context.
    With that, then there's the matter of how much control is
    afforded.   Is it programmable in predictable ways?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
    Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 8:20 AM
    To:[email protected]
    Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking

    Yeah, I agree. But context is Queen. When the virus is created in
    the lab, it's done with real stuff distilled from the soupy
    world. Given enough of a difference in context, the robot may not
    be able to re-constitute the life because the soupy world
    surrounding the robot doesn't have the real stuff required. Such
    drastic context changes could be a result of translation through
    space or time. E.g. trying to construct, on Mars, an organism
    read/serialized on earth. Or e.g. trying to construct an organism
    read millennia ago, millennia in the future. It's naive to talk
    about "science" as if any given read-out formula thereby
    expressed is *complete*. Science is abstraction to a large extent
    ... maybe not as abstracting as math, of course. And science must
    remain "open" precisely because any formula it expresses is
    suspect, perhaps incomplete.

    My favorite example is the magic brewing
    
stick:https://medievalmeadandbeer.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/scandinavian-yeast-logs-yeast-rings/It
    *was* scientific to lay out the magic stick as a critical element
    of the brewing process, only to discover later that the stick
    isn't the important part.

    On 11/2/21 2:39 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
    > Even if that were so, viruses have been pulled from history or
    tweaked and created in the lab.   So we have a design
    specification, and the means to make it.    One could imagine a
    robot fabricating the close-to-the-metal machine too.   There is
    a story one can write down how it is done.   If there is no
    story, it is not science we are talking about, it is something else.


    --
    "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie."
    ☤>$ uǝlƃ


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