Librarians can use citation metrics to inform what journals they buy. They can also point out they have a finite budget and ask their customers which journals to prioritize. Same goes for ISPs. There's a natural tendency toward ISPs that protect their customers from exploitative agents. Ultimately it is a trade off between abusive big players, having an accessible marketplace, and what we'd call criminal behavior.. as Roger's article explains.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2022 7:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Still more faking it till you make it Ha! Grats on getting your pseudo-profound BS bot running! Mine's still in development. I was trying to use Julia. But the JIT slows my debug cycle. On 9/8/22 07:27, Marcus Daniels wrote: > The Arc of the Moral Universe is Long but it Bends Toward Justice. > Meanwhile there is injustice. The universe will do what it will do. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2022 7:20 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Still more faking it till you make it > > Yeah, again you're living in an ideal world. The reality is librarians > receive requests from their customers for subscriptions to journals. So > librarians might receive requests to subscribe to crap journals (requests > made, perhaps, by students or new lecturers that haven't done their homework) > and they're going to have to decide whether the journal is crap, assuming > they have the budget to work with in the first place. > > Just saying "if it's crap, don't buy a subscription" is naive to the point of > uselessness. It's like those Nigerian scam emails. They wouldn't keep doing > it if the hit rate were zero. And, yeah, you can always claim that 95 year > old woman struggling to pay for her cancer treatment *should* get scammed > because she's stupid. But, in reality, most people won't make silly claims > like that. Those of us who *can* help stop scammers, should help stop > scammers. > > > On 9/8/22 06:57, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> If a journal is crap, don't buy a subscription for it. Mostly I think >> there is a lot of publication that doesn't need to occur, and the incentives >> for that are largely to blame. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen >> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2022 5:54 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Still more faking it till you make it >> >> Well, there are analogs to "irate customer generating negative feedback" in >> polluting the commons. The real difference between the rhetoric in that >> optimal fraud article and things like AI-generated nonsense publications is >> the "waterfall" accountability. There's an equivalent waterfall >> accountability to processing information from ill- or non-curated sources. >> But it's not measured as well, nor are the costs proportionally born by >> those involved. >> >> Marcus' suggestion that all the cost should be (is) born at the edge is pure >> fantasy. The costs are also born by, e.g. every editor with a shred of >> integrity, every institution that pays for subscriptions, every researcher >> hunting for a "good" place to submit their work, etc. More banal examples >> might be wellness channels on Youtube, places like Goop <https://goop.com/>, >> or the nutriceutical market(s). A poignant example is the Log4Shell supply >> chain vulnerability. >> >> Garbage can be inserted into any branch point in the (pollutable) supply >> chain. And the costs are born by the entire chain, proportionality depending >> on whether it's "regulated" by conscious attendees (like the head of Fraud >> in Business, Inc. or the actuaries at the insurance companies). >> >> On 9/7/22 20:02, Roger Critchlow wrote: >>> In a similar vein, this article showed up on hackernews last week >>> >>> https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fraud/ >>> <https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fraud/> >>> >>> though a fraudulent credit card transaction has an irate customer >>> generating negative feedback, where a badly edited journal merely pollutes >>> the commons. >>> >>> -- rec -- >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 9:42 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> What is the problem with paper mills? Cite papers that are >>> important, ignore papers that are not. >>> >>>> On Sep 7, 2022, at 1:32 PM, glen <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> We need to talk about editors >>>> >>>> http://deevybee.blogspot.com/2022/09/we-need-to-talk-about-editors. >>>> h >>>> t >>>> ml?m=1 >>>> <http://deevybee.blogspot.com/2022/09/we-need-to-talk-about-editors. >>>> h >>>> tml?m=1> >>>> >>>> I know. Ya'll are prolly unsubbing because of all my spam. But until >>>> Voldemort bans me, this is the state of the world. >>>> >>>> What does it say about me that I find this beautiful: >>>> >>>> "Asthma disease are the scatters, gives that influence the lungs, >>>> the organs that let us to inhale and it’s the principal visit disease >>>> overall particularly in India. During this work, the matter of lung >>>> maladies simply like the trouble experienced while arranging the sickness >>>> in radiography are frequently illuminated. There are various procedures >>>> found in writing for recognition of asthma infection identification. A few >>>> agents have contributed their realities for Asthma illness expectation. >>>> The need for distinguishing asthma illness at a beginning period is very >>>> fundamental and is an exuberant research territory inside the field of >>>> clinical picture preparing. For this, we’ve survey numerous relapse >>>> models, k-implies bunching, various leveled calculation, characterizations >>>> and profound learning methods to search out best classifier for lung >>>> illness identification. These papers generally settlement about winning >>>> carcinoma discovery methods that are reachable inside the >>>> writing." >> -- ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
