My erstwhile boss Raj Reddy was in the same Department with Simon and Newell and knew their work well. He said that it was relatively easy to create a computer program that did the work of a professor that the real challenge would be to develop an autonomous bulldozer.
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sun, Sep 11, 2022, 11:37 AM Prof David West <[email protected]> wrote: > Wolpert's questions are fantastic. Thanks glen for prompting this > discussion. > > Re: question one about the "chasm with minimal cognitive capabilities > necessary ..." > > I have two major problems with the assumptions behind this question. > > First, the assumption that Godel, Einstein, and Beethoven exemplify > 'greater' (in some sense of that word) cognitive abilities. This is > analogous the the AI notions advanced by Newel and Simon that they had > succeeded in creating a thinking machine because the thinking reproduced > was that of university professors. They thought that the way they thought > was the apex of human thinking. A much greater challenge— still avoided, > even by the most sophisticated ML approaches — is how a baby is able to > learn and extract meaning from a chaotic cacophony of inputs. > > Second, that the cognitive capabilities of pre-Holocene humans were > "minimal." The most pernicious myth with regard our long ago ancestors > derive from either Rousseau or Hobbes—both of whom conjectured, with no > evidence, that our ancestors existed in a primitive state—Edenic for > Rousseau, and brutish for Hobbes, but simplistically primitive. > > Quite the opposite was true. The world was far more complex and > challenging, with everything from social relations to 'food chemistry' > (e.g. brewing beer) to explanations of why everything in the world was as > it was being highly variable across population groups and constantly in > flux. A bit analogous to the baby making sense of the world. > > Humans today are able to "survive" primarily because of tens of thousands > of years accumulation of "culture." Because we have that resource, we do > not have to figure out if that nice striped quadruped over there will eat > me; or, if that red berry will kill me but the other red berry is essential > for a great BLT. > > It might be possible to make an argument: Godel, et. al., were able to do > what they did because 'culture' reduced the daily (hourly, millisecond-ly) > cognitive load such that it was possible to put the 'surplus' to work on > issues of math and music; but, not that there was any kind of qualitative > or quantitative difference in cognitive abilities of humans then and now. > > to be continued ... > > davew > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022, at 8:05 AM, Steve Smith wrote: > > DaveW - > >> Just wanted to put this here as a placeholder for future conversation > as I would like to take up Wolpert's questions even though I am not > "miraculous" per glen's invitation. I do need a day to two to read and > pose questions /make observations, but others might be ready to chime in > with observations right away. > > > > always ready to "chime" at the drop of a dime here... > > > > I look forward to your more considered responses. I hope my own chimes > > aren't more mud than water... > > > > > > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: 5/2017 thru present > > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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