glen wrote:
\ (That doesn't mean Nick's attraction to ChatGPT isn't based in loneliness. It's prolly *epistemic* loneliness.) I'd guess SteveS' use is more like chatting, given his posts wander around so much.
Think you are not-wrong in the sense that my conversations with LLMs can be tangential and discursive. LLM's require very little help in recognizing a context shift which makes it easier on me NOT to have to try to explain the tangent I've taken with a convo. Virtually *all* of my GPT threads are A) directed in the way you recognize in Nick (somewhat obsessed about a specific ideation I want to explore with an informed/motivated correspondant); B) discursive and tangential to anyone but me (and I'd claim GPT). In the latter case, I do sometimes have to explain to GPT that I'm either still talking about the same thing, only in a different metaphor or idiom or that I have, in fact, caught a warp thread when GPT was still working the weft.
IRL, I've almost entirely lost my ability to small-talk or gossip or "chat"... It used to be something I knew to be a useful lubricant, a space-filler, a bridge from one topic (or no-topic) to another of (presumed) mutual interest. This (kind of) forum (FriAM) allows me the asynchronicity to not need to trust that *any given person* is following my bobs and weaves, but (perhaps) trust that some are tracking and a very few are even appreciating... and the rest are using their convenient <delete> key (or button or ...).
Behind my hypothesis is the idea that many people don't trust outlets like mainstream media, university lecture[s|ers], civil and monitored political debates, etc. is because they have a very deep desire for the chat. I think that sentiment was pre-adapted to some extent by reality TV, which we all know isn't real. But at least it's better than some cabal of writers, directors, and producers crafting a narrative to infect you with a mind virus.Of course, I'm nearly incapable of chatting. So my image of what it is and how it works is prolly biased ... but that's also why I can't stand Joe Rogan's show ... or The View ... or Morning Joe, etc. What a waste of time.On 5/8/25 8:34 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:I chat with George because there are some topics I want answers about but would avoid doing so if it meant I had to sit in a room with "experts" for an hour. Sometimes I have sat in a room with them for hours (or even days) and then sought the consolation of sharp objects! LLMs are the perfect tool to extract relevant information from a dry topic like this: https://registry.khronos.org/OpenCL/specs/opencl-2.1.pdfSadly, a lot of engineer/technical culture is just consciousness lowering. How many thousands of coffees have I consumed to put my impatience away? Finally, a machine that by design can put its consciousness away when not in use. The perfect engineer personality. A miracle.-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2025 7:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [FRIAM] chatbot friends and parasocialityI have a friend who doth protest too much about being a joiner. He's pathologically allergic to any hint of an accusation of being a fanboi. I've accused him of being such in the contexts of both music and soccer. In his reactions to my accusations, he cites the fact that I do often join things like parasocial Discord groups, often watch twitch streams, etc. The implication being that I'm a joiner and he's not. My counter is that I'm always a tourist in these parasocial spaces. Even when I do engage, the reaction of the community is mostly an immune response like "Who is this rando who suddenly started talking?" I lurk, pretending I'm something like an anthropologist. This is antithetic to joining, a perverted voyeurism.That's a set up for this hypothesis. Those of us who really get engaged *chatting* [⛧] with a bot like ChatGPT are solving the same loneliness (3rd place absence) problem that's solved with long-form podcasts like Joe Rogan, twitch streams, etc. The primary difference is (as Marcus points out) the parameter space for the LLM is huge enough to allow some of them to be meta-parameters, effectively selecting between different parasocial personalities. With podcasts and streamers, including group streamers, the lonely person has to *choose* the destination, choose the podcaster, choose the personality. And they have to organize their schedule or manage the downloads, etc. *And* they have to make some modifications to their own behavior in order to be a member of the group, if they want to engage in the chat or whatever.With the LLM, very little of that choosing and self-management is needed. E.g. it's easy to get banned from a twitch stream for saying something mildly political ... or using the wrong pronouns or even fat-fingering your typing ALL THE TIME. It's also easy to end up in a Discord dumpster fire where everyone's secretly an anti-Semite. But with ChatGPT, it's really easy to tune the meta-parameters simply by engaging it in the right way.Testability: If I'm right, we should be able to test this. I'm ignorant. But maybe there are a handful of tests for loneliness out there. I'd want at least 3 tests. Null would be no association between loneliness scores from those tested and their engagement with podcasts/streams/LLMs. Ideally, we might have 3 arms: a control, podcasts/streams, & LLMs. Incidental findings might get at the modes (audio, video, text).[⛧] I can't emphasize enough that I'm talking about chatting, "conversation", not other usage patterns like trying to engineer a codebase or using it as a writing assistant.
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