Maybe the small, fast, predictive processes "vote"? Frank Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918
Research: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 On Tue, Jul 7, 2026, 8:35 AM glen <[email protected]> wrote: > Of course. You have a knack for pushing my buttons. 8^D > > What irritates me about all this active inference and predictive > processing advocacy [⛧] is well-represented in the title of that chapter > "From Sensorimotor Skills to Higher Cognition". [grrrr] The reason I took > the time to download it and start skimming it was my hope for a thorough > *composition* from the very small-fast feedback loops to the large-slow > ones. There are a lot of citations. So maybe the clues are in there. But > I'm lazy. > > What I *want* ... what I really really want is evidence of predictive > processing in a minimal model organism like C. Elegans or Drosophilia. Such > exist [1-5]! But now we need something like connectome (or simpler?) > circuits in more complex organisms that show how small-fast predictive > processing composes into large-slow predictive processing. Does the model > work at *all* scales? Only some scales? Is it like a percolating stew of > predictions, some of which are suppressed by the larger circuits? > > Speaking of which, I discovered this book just last night: > > > https://bookshop.org/p/books/from-human-reasoning-to-belief-an-empirical-account-joshua-mugg/de6c8394b4e24d99?ean=9781032736952 > > But as always, it's silly to keep buying books I'll never read. I post it > here in the hopes that you readers out there might read it and tell me what > it says ... or maybe I'll buy the epub and feed it to Claude ... or maybe > it's read it already? I haven't checked. You'll remember we've had such > arguments before, when you claimed I *must* believe in the floor in order > to get out of bed in the morning. And my counter was that it is my *doubt* > about the existence of the floor that allows me to get out of bed. IDK if > Mugg's "DJ mixing board" model fits one of our stances better. But I do > like it better than the overly simplistic fast vs slow thinking model. > > > [1] Dimakou A, Pezzulo G, Zangrossi A, Corbetta M. The predictive nature > of spontaneous brain activity across scales and species. Neuron. Published > online March 1, 2025. doi:10.1016/j.neuron.2025.02.009 > [2] Kaplan H, Nichols A, Zimmer M. Sensorimotor integration in > Caenorhabditis elegans: a reappraisal towards dynamic and distributed > computations. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B: Biological > Sciences. 2018;373. doi:10.1098/rstb.2017.0371 > [3] Kim A, Fitzgerald J, Maimon G. Cellular evidence for efference copy in > Drosophila visuomotor processing. Nature neuroscience. 2015;18:1247-1255. > doi:10.1038/nn.4083 > [4] Lin A, Witvliet D, Hernandez-Nunez L, Linderman S, Samuel A, > Venkatachalam V. Imaging whole-brain activity to understand behavior. > Nature reviews Physics. 2022;4:292-305. doi:10.1038/s42254-022-00430-w > [5] Wang S, Segev I, Borst A, Palmer S. Maximally efficient prediction in > the early fly visual system may support evasive flight maneuvers. PLoS > Computational Biology. 2019;17. doi:10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008965 > > > [⛧] It seems to me that most of the peri-Friston work borders on advocacy > of the model(s) as opposed to challenging them. But I'm not a scholar. So > my scope is very small. > > On 7/6/26 8:15 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > Hi, Glen, > > > > I liked the predictive processing thing. It coheres with an idea I have > been kicking around of late. People tend to think of cognitive processes > as putting us in touch with the world as it is. Then we look at that > represented world and make decisions about the future. Wouldn't it make > more sense for cognitive processes to put us in touch with the world as it > is going to be? To translate that back into monist talk, we live in a world > of successive anticipations. As I get more frail, I become aware of all > the hard work my cerebellum must be doing to anticipate the consequences of > any action I might take that changes my center of gravity. A delayed > prediction can lead to my taking actions that compound a balance prediction > and send me to the floor. it's like I am doing judo to myself. > > > > Is that annoying enough to feed the beast? > > > > Nick > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 6:31 PM glen <[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]>> wrote: > > > > It's so dead, here, I figure it can't hurt to post arbitrary > nonsense I've run across lately: > > > > Meningeal lymphatic architecture and drainage dynamics surrounding > the human middle meningeal artery > > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693 < > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693> > > > > Constructing a lower-bound estimate of the global number of insect > species on a hyperdiverse empirical foundation > > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123 < > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123> > > > > Predictive Processing: From Sensorimotor Skills to Higher Cognition > > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011 < > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011> > > > > As always, I'm reading them in fitful bursts, interleaved across > each other and all the other open tabs and crap strewn about my desk. So > .... grain of salt and all. > > > > -- > > 8647 ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ > > ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, > ἵνα σώσω. > > > -- > 8647 ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ > ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα > σώσω. > > > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / > ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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