This is ONCE you are actually in front, of the judge...remember, it may take some breaking of civil liberty, for this to happen... or i maybe wrong. cheers xd
On 5 October 2011 15:10, Laurelai <[email protected]> wrote: > On 10/4/2011 6:50 PM, adam wrote: > > "That actually depends on the situation, contempt can be criminal. And > frankly if you refuse a court order for information like that, the LE > officers will just seize it by gunpoint legally, then arrest you." > > I'm curious as to what you think would cause contempt to be a criminal > offense, especially in that example. > > Secondly, without the appropriate warrant - they couldn't legally take > anything. If they disregarded that truth and did so anyway, they'd open > themselves up to a pretty big lawsuit for violating that individual's civil > rights as well as due process. Not to mention, anything found would likely > end up being inadmissible because it was obtained illegally. > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Laurelai <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 10/4/2011 6:35 PM, adam wrote: >> >> "(Option 3 - the guy heads downtown on a contempt of court charge - >> happens so >> rarely that it's basically a hypothetical)." >> >> You do realize that (at least in the US) - contempt is *not* a criminal >> offense, don't you? >> >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 8:05 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 03:15:02 EDT, Jeffrey Walton said: >>> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:06 AM, Ferenc Kovacs <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > > As I mentioned before it is hard to expect that a VPN provider will >>> > > risk his company for your $11.52/month, and maybe they would try it >>> > > for some lesser case, but what Lulsec did was grant, so I'm not >>> > > surprised that they bent. >>> > >>> > "Alleged" >>> >>> Yes. So? In most jurisdictions, "alledged" and "probable cause" is >>> sufficient >>> to get a court to sign off on a subpoena and/or warrants. >>> >>> "Dear Judge: On Aug 23, a hacker using the handle "JustFellOutOfTree" >>> did >>> violate Section N, Clause X.Y of the criminal code by hacking into >>> BigStore.com. The connection was traced back to the provider VPNs-R-Us. >>> We >>> would like a court order requesting VPNs-R-Us to provide any and all >>> information they may have regarding this user". >>> >>> That will usually do it (after bulked up to about 3 pages with legalese >>> and >>> dotting the t's and crossing the i's). >>> >>> The next morning, the manager at VPNs-R-Us gets to his office, and finds >>> two guys with guns and a signed piece of paper. At which point one of >>> two >>> things will happen: >>> >>> 1) the guy rolls and gives up all the info. >>> 2) the guy calls his lawyer and makes sure that he gives up all the >>> required info, >>> and not one byte more. >>> >>> (Option 3 - the guy heads downtown on a contempt of court charge - >>> happens so >>> rarely that it's basically a hypothetical). >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >> >> That actually depends on the situation, contempt can be criminal. And >> frankly if you refuse a court order for information like that, the LE >> officers will just seize it by gunpoint legally, then arrest you. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >> > > > http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00754.htm > > And they can hold you indefinitely until you comply, or use your lack of > compliance as reasonable suspicion to get that warrant, oh and lets not > forget that they are declaring kids cyber terrorists and then the patriot > act takes effect in cases of suspicion of terrorism, when that happens you > don't have any rights anymore. Realistically we should stop calling them > rights since they aren't really rights, they are privileges that can be > revoked at government convenience. > > > _______________________________________________ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
