Forwarded by Colin Stark
Here is an interview Ken Wolber did recently with the Shambhala Sun
magazine regarding his new book: One Taste.
A few Extracts:
"Shambhala: Okay, we’ll stop here. One Taste, it seems, is at
least three things: an introduction to the world’s great wisdom
traditions, a summary of your own work, and a diary of a year in
the life…"
"In fact, I think One Taste is probably the best short introduction to my
work now
available. But additionally, there are many entries that break new
ground entirely, and point to future directions not only in my work,
but in integral and spiritual studies in general. This book is
basically a series of entries, covering one year, of various new
ideas as they were entered in the journals."
"Shambhala: Speaking of The Marriage of Sense and Soul,
what do you make of the fact that President Clinton and Vice-
President Al Gore have both read the book and publicly called
attention to it? In the New Yorker magazine, Gore called it “one
of my favorite new books.” At the same time, Jeb Bush’s people
are using "Brief History". Why all this recent political interest in
your work?"
"And in this case, personal journals call for some of that. In
particular, since I have written extensively about interior life,
meditation, and spiritual practice, it seemed entirely appropriate
for me to be extremely explicit about my own interior life, and so I
was."
=================================================
Interview with Ken Wilber: The Publication of One Taste—The Journals of Ken
Wilber
Shambhala: You have a new book coming out.
Ken Wilber: Yes, it seems so.
Shambhala: Your journals. Are they real journals? Like a diary?
Ken Wilber: Well, yes, real journals I guess.
Shambhala: Personal journals? Disgusting, private, sordid stuff?
Ken Wilber: Definitely.
Shambhala: Really?
Ken Wilber: Well…. I started keeping these journals as a type
of experiment. They are definitely personal journals, like a
diary—they contain personal incidences, meditation experiences,
accounts of events in my daily life, and so on. But they also
contain entries that are short essays—anywhere from one to ten
pages—on topics that are of concern to me and my writing, and I
hope are of concern to others.
Shambhala: Okay, we’re not letting you off the hook about the
disgusting personal stuff. But for now, topics such as?
Ken Wilber: Transpersonal and spiritual philosophy; integral
transformative practice; the culture wars, feminism, ecology,
politics, the meaning of postmodernism; holistic medicine, art,
music, integral culture, and so on. Often a day’s entry is simply a
short essay dealing with one of those topics—perhaps how to
interpret art, or ways to integrate liberal and conservative politics,
or why integral feminism is an exciting new development, or the
importance and limitations of ecopsychology, or the new and
powerful types of spiritual transformation known as integral
practice.
Shambhala: Anything new in these entries, or are they
summaries of positions you have stated elsewhere?
Ken Wilber: Both. That is, I often needed to briefly summarize
some of my already published work, so I did. In fact, I think One
Taste is probably the best short introduction to my work now
available.
But additionally, there are many entries that break new
ground entirely, and point to future directions not only in my work,
but in integral and spiritual studies in general. This book is
basically a series of entries, covering one year, of various new
ideas as they were entered in the journals.
Shambhala: A few examples?
Ken Wilber: What is the actual nature of the “integral culture”
that is said to be emerging in America at this time? I discuss the
idea that integral culture is simply a new form of civil religion,
which I call Person-Centered Civil Religion, a type of spirituality
that focuses on autonomous individuals as they consciously
choose communities of other autonomous individuals. I do not
believe it is quite as transformative as some of its advocates
maintain, but it is definitely a new form of legitimate or translative
spirituality, and it is having a profound impact on almost every
aspect of American life.
Including publishing! Baby boomers are now returning to
God and Goddess, and publishers are falling all over themselves
trying to figure out how to market God. And, of course, agents
have decided they want 15% of God, so it’s gotten very crazy
around town! This has actually helped Shambhala, I’m glad to
say, because Shambhala—Sam [Bercholz, founder of Shambhala]
gets embarrassed when I say this—but Shambhala is correctly
perceived to have been publishing quality spiritual books for three
decades, and not merely to be doing so in order to get in on the
gold rush to the God market. It’s very funny, don’t you think?
Shambhala: In One Taste you actually document the publishing
and marketing of The Marriage of Sense and Soul. You wrote
that book for a mainstream publisher [KW: Yes], and the first
three months of your journals have all the entries about your trip
to Manhattan. It’s pretty hilarious.
Ken Wilber: Yes, well, it was a trip. The book got put up for
auction and I needed to be in New York, so off I went. But no
matter how silly or even horrifying events were, I soon developed
a great equanimity about it all, because I would immediately think,
“Great journal entry!” I could fall, break my leg in five places, be
bleeding to death in the middle of nowhere, and I would probably
think, “Great journal entry!” So in addition to meditative
equanimity, there was a kind of “noble journal equanimity.” I’m
sure that’s a major reason many people keep journals or
diaries—it’s a miniature meditation.
Shambhala: Speaking of The Marriage of Sense and Soul,
what do you make of the fact that President Clinton and Vice-
President Al Gore have both read the book and publicly called
attention to it? In the New Yorker magazine, Gore called it “one
of my favorite new books.” At the same time, Jeb Bush’s people
are using Brief History. Why all this recent political interest in
your work?
Ken Wilber: Well, of course the hope is that the political process
is beginning to take a more integral view of the world, and that
both liberals and conservatives would therefore find a common
interest in this work.
Shambhala: Do you see anything coming of this?
Ken Wilber: To be honest, I just don’t know. We’ll have to wait
and see how it unfolds. But it is very promising, at the least. A
decade ago, you could barely get people interested in integral
studies, and now there certainly seems to have been some sort of
major shift. Perhaps a critical mass of interest has been reached.
And by “integral studies,” I don’t just mean my work, but the
work of hundreds, indeed thousands, of theorists and researchers
around the world, in the areas of holistic thinking, interdisciplinary
work, crosscultural investigations, transpersonal and spiritual
studies, and integrative endeavors. It’s a very exciting time.
Shambhala: Much of which you recorded in One Taste. Do you
still keep a journal?
Ken Wilber: No, it was fun while it lasted, but it was an
experiment, and by the end of that year, I was so sick of me I just
couldn’t stand it. I was glad to have done it, and equally glad to
be done with it. Perhaps again in five or ten years. But I think
it’s a good record of many of these issues.
Shambhala: Okay, now the sordid details. I hear there’s nipple
piercing.
Ken Wilber: Oh that’s disgusting.
Shambhala: Do you deny it?
Ken Wilber: I need a Clinton definition of nipple piercing.
Shambhala: Well, in general, what do you think the response will
be to your including various personal details in this book? In a
sense it’s odd, because many people think of you as intensely
private, even hermit-like, and yet One Taste is quite open about
much of your personal life.
Ken Wilber: I’m not a private person in the sense of secretive,
it’s just that I have never really sought the lime light. But I don’t
mind talking about my personal life if that’s what’s called for.
And in this case, personal journals call for some of that. In
particular, since I have written extensively about interior life,
meditation, and spiritual practice, it seemed entirely appropriate
for me to be extremely explicit about my own interior life, and so I
was.
Shambhala: How do you think people will react?
Ken Wilber: Well, both ways. Some will appreciate it, some will
resent it, I suppose. You know, oftentimes the more you know
about somebody, the more reasons you can find to be annoyed by
them. Remember that funny scene in A Thousand Clowns? The
very nice woman social worker says, of one of her clients, only
ten years old: “When I first met Norman Leadbetter, I didn’t like
him. But that was only because I didn’t understand him. Now
that I understand him, I hate him.”
We’re all like that to some degree, don’t you think? So the
more I expose myself, the more reasons some people can find to
dislike me. Critics especially seem to detest this kind of stuff, so
they start sharpening their knives before they even open the book.
We’re sort of bracing for that one. But it often backfires on the
critics, because the more they try to torpedo the book, the more
attention it gets and the more it sells. I guess we’ll see.
Shambhala: Used to be that some people disliked you for mere
rumors that were often untrue, but with this book…
Ken Wilber: Yes, now that they really understand me, they’ll
hate me.
Shambhala: What were you thinking as you wrote these entries?
Why even think about doing this? We’re biased, but we found
them very funny, entertaining, sometimes brilliant. What was your
motivation?
Ken Wilber: Two things, I suppose. One, I really did feel it was
appropriate for me to share my own interior life. I often write
academic or scholarly works, and you are simply not supposed to
include anything “subjective” or “personal,” because that is being
“nonobjective.” A diary, on the other hand, is exactly where you
would put these things, so it seemed a logical choice. And two, I
wanted to try to find a way to convey the essence of the world’s
great wisdom traditions and spiritual practices, but to do so in an
easy, fresh, accessible way.
Shambhala: One Taste is an excellent summary of the world’s
wisdom traditions.
Ken Wilber: Thank you. A journal is a good way to do that,
because you can alternate entries—on the great traditions, on my
own work, and so on—with entries that are light and hopefully
amusing.
Shambhala: Like going to the dentist, where you write: “Dental
appointment today. All of the dentists in Boulder are ‘holistic.’
They can’t fill a cavity but they’re good for your soul. Your teeth
rot, but apparently your spirit prospers.”
Ken Wilber: Well….
Shambhala: Okay, we’ll stop here. One Taste, it seems, is at
least three things: an introduction to the world’s great wisdom
traditions, a summary of your own work, and a diary of a year in
the life…
Ken Wilber: Yes, I think that sums it up.
Shambhala: Thank you.
Good luck with One Taste!
Ken Wilber: Thank you.
************
