Hello Natalia and Darryl,
I've been backed up, so failed to respond. I did get the original post.
I think we agree on some things and I'll interject my comments below.
(some snipping to cut volume)
If you look up the definitions of spirituality or spiritualism, there
are no mentions of "natural" aspects. Nothing about measurable energy,
nor matter, of course. I do think that /natural /happens to be the
right word, though I'm not sure we share similar p.o.v.'s as to why. I
would argue that we are simply not very good at identifying that
natural energy, and that it is presently too complex and predominately
immeasurable.
It is unlikely that human perception and cognition can ever experience
more than a tiny % of reality. Thus mystery and infinity (multiverses)
will remain such. It does not matter how "good at identifying ...natural
energy" we are as we can never have evidence that we know it all, even
if one believed it possible. Why would one expect to ever 'get there'
given no known boundaries to space-time-energy-matter-anti-matter...?
the quantum world can appear to the very physicists who explore it, a
world of fantasy.
Agree
Classical science is really a relatively recent way of trying to
explain what takes place in the universe. But centuries ago, we
depended on the church to tell us the facts.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, various aboriginals, Chinese, Nordic
folks, etc...had no churches. They had myths they created to explain
things beyond easy common sense.
explores an organismic universe that extends through time/space. It
is, in large part, the new paradigm for current fields of play for top
minds.
Definition of "organismic" is important. Systemic I can grasp, but
organism implies life form to me.
At CERN, who allegedly employs almost half of the world's particle
physicists, researchers are exploring the subatomic universe
attempting to explain our origins, and if really lucky the question of
why we're here.
wishful thinking??
The GUT theories (General Unified Theories) are explored at CERN.
Yes. A Theory of Everything has been a 'holy grail' for decades.
Quantum physics explores *possibilities* within the theory of an
entangled universe in which we are all connected. Space is merely the
construct that gives the illusion that there are separate objects.
yes: "possibilities" But a meteorite hitting Earth IS a separate object
and it has measurable impacts. That is NOT an illusion.
Quantum physics is popularly known for research around observer
affects on the outcome of experiments, but a more generous overview
would be that researchers are exploring the mind of nature itself, a
world of pure potentiality, of probability waves, pure abstract
self-aware consciousness.
I detect poetry at work. ;-) Anthropogenic evaluation of
mystery...(mind) Waves, yes. "probability waves?? disembodied
self-awareness?? Please find 2 examples of theoretical physicists
writings in peer reviewed journals of this. Bob Park, past pres of The
Amer Physical Society would be most interested!
They speak of waves rather than particles;
Waves are energy. Energy IS material.
non-material vectors in a complex, infinite dimensional space. (A
material particle cannot exist in multiple locations simultaneously,
nor does it diffract nor interfere with itself like a wave.) It is a
non-material inner mind behind outer matter, the very stuff that
thoughts are made of. This abstract, non-material quantum world
underlies and governs the outer material universe, according to John
Hagelin, one of quantum physics' more well-known authorities in the
area of unified quantum field theories. He has conducted pioneering
research at CERN, SLAC (Stanford Linear Accelerator Center) and
developed a successful grand unified field theory based on Superstring.
I'm roughly familiar with String & Superstring. It is pure conjecture at
this point. Even if true it says zero about consciousness nor mind. It
would be a descriptive behavior theory.
Mind, in the animal brain, has still not been located. Neurological
science cannot find it, though the human brain has been thoroughly
mapped. Areas of its processing are apparent, yet the brain can only
reflect consciousness. It does not create it.
Oh really? Damage a part of the brain & get repeatable evidence of loss
of mental abilities = evidence of dependence.
The actual source is still at large and unknown. Brain is instrumental
to facilitate consciousness to develop mind which learns and evolves.
Brain is like the palette on which mind creates.
James Randi Foundation ha $US 1 million if evidence of your claim of
dis-embodied mind can be shown.
(snipped alot as all speculative)
In response to Mike's reply about human hardwiring,...(big snip) The
body's cells are enlivened by opportunity to emerge with new
understanding or experience.
The person may be 'enlivened'; but "the cells"?? Maybe, but evidence?
"Molecules of Emotion", actually holds patents for modified peptides
in the treatment of Alzheimer's disease, stroke and head trauma. She
has extensively observed addiction at the cellular level, and contends
that emotions are actual molecules. Each cell has a consciousness,
each one needs a fix of something.
Treating disorders successfully doesn't equal ontological knowledge of
molecules or cells being emotions. Emotions are experiences of a
subject. They are affected by chemistry as we've known for decades.
I would dispute the over-all claim by David Villano posted from the
Alternet. We have only to look to the dysfunctional Soviet Union or
The People's Republic of China to tear apart this notion of well being
amongst the so-called irreligious.
Many Chinese are Taoist and some are Christian & other religions; and
many Russians are Russian Orthodox, with some Muslim. You are equating
govt philosophy with avg persons beliefs. Not equivalent.
The Scandinavian success stories also come with a healthy portion of
reports stating that spirituality is very high there, though
traditional religion may be scarce. Prosperity today implies the
requirement of ever-increasing profit, whereas its past meaning had
more to do with success and a flourishing life. First Nations people
once had healthy lives, environments and micro economies, and also had
deep religious and spiritual beliefs. Many of these were posted here
before. The author is picking facts to suit. America may be religious,
yet a strong sense of caring, empathy, community and respect for their
"God's" natural creations are lost in the roar of dogmatic cries from
those who create God in their own selfish, vengeful, non-insightful
image.
However, if I could get this on track within the guidelines of
Futurework, and all things related...
Where it comes to the socio-economic well-being of any country, its
economy is a /direct reflection of its spirituality./ As are its
politics, religions, its educational systems, its social safety net,
its artistic and cultural development, its health care, or its
environmental policies and vitality.
Values are subjective once beyond adaptive fitness. You love certain
aspects of spirituality as do I. Unfortunately it is hard to divide that
aspect of human thinking/feeling. The Inquisitions & Crusades & burning
of witches & stonings..are part of the whole ball of wax. And it ain't
dis-embodied!
All Best,
Natalia Kuzmyn
Cheers on the downslope of overshoot,
Steve
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