Thanks, Arthur, I am familiar with Peat.
Selma From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 12:42 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Spirituality and Science You may be interested in the web site of David Peat (biographer of Bohm). http://www.paricenter.com/ arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Selma Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:09 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Spirituality and Science Hi Natalie, Thanks for your very thoughtful reply to my questions. Actually, I think all of the questions come back to the issue of cultural values; Ray has said many times in many ways that, to the degree we don't have art in the earliest education, we are missing the boat. And, even beyond that, the culture that recognizes the power of the spirit as well as the physical must be an ingrained part of what every child learns along with the intake of its mother's breast milk. However, it is not a matter of either/or; we must have a recognition that both are equally important. In Turk's book, the part he doesn't want to give away, is that he had broken his pelvis during an avalanche and, after surgery, partially broke it again; Western medicine couldn't help much and the Shaman, Moolynaut, cured him . There are many such stories from Aboriginal cultures everywhere, but we tend to ignore them or dismiss them for one reason or another. There are, of course, also many scientists, like David Bohm, who address the issues of the way we fragment our world and our lives and disconnect from an important reality. I think it will take a massive reorientation of our education and work systems before we are able to help ourselves or our world. Selma From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Darryl or Natalia Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:48 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] Spirituality and Science Hi Selma, Though I haven't read Turk's book, I really liked the video. I'd have to read the book to more fully grasp his views on work and education, though his views on greedy corporations rang clear enough. If logic of the digitized, always scientifically measured capitalist world must prevail, then the desires of corporation owners will always take precedent, while the language, visions and realistic numbers for sustainability will remain largely foreign, incapable of arriving at value. It's a convenient denial. Plenty of studies are out there to show sustainability is profitable, but the returns simply aren't immediate enough, nor egregious. I do believe nature is being forced to become the decider on this one, because education can't possibly produce a generation of aware, responsible, accountable and compassionate people soon enough to reverse the ill-effects of this greed. The school system isn't going to change until society wakes up to how they've failed young minds. This likely won't happen till poverty and disaster overcome us, and we have little left but open hungry minds with crystalline hindsight and a lot of world to salvage and rebuild. That sounds harsh, but how do you see it, Selma? Do you think education, which has been the historical motivator for change, is still likely to change minds in time? Is it possible that this time around, given global warming acceleration, experience out of chaos will be the best teacher? Will that result in more defensive posturing, or do you see mind adapting more brilliantly with even better educators, despite diminished financial resources for this sector? I believe minds will become more aware, and that it's part of the programming, but I obviously have concerns about how soon we will be facing the consequences of corporate greed, how much of a damper that will be on education, and how we're going to evolve our way out of short-term gain tactics to arrive at the mind-set that actually works. The most significant aspects of the video, for me, were actually those which questioned reality and explored cultural extinction. Consciousness being capable of physical creation arouses hot debate on this list, despite quantum physics having been the most groundbreaking pulse of science since the early Twenties. If it isn't measurable, how can it be real? is the gist of where most of these conversations have gone. I just caught the last half of a CBC radio show called Quirks and Quarks, which featured some leading physicists answering to what constitutes the top ten unanswered questions of all time. The first fellow, Dr. Julian Barber, a physicist and writer from the UK, felt that the question, Does time exist? ranks way up there. He said that despite everyone in the scientific community acknowledging it as real, no one has definitive proof of its existence.Yet, it contravenes science's requirement of having to see, or witness, its existence. Dr. Bill Rooters from Massachusetts, cited "What's behind quantum mechanics?" Though everything now fits into this theory, which strangely focuses a great deal on the square root of negative one, he thinks the next big breakthrough will go one step deeper to explain how nature computes these probabilities. If quantum theory could be unified by something else yet unidentified, he said. Perhaps I'm wrong about nature having to take the lead. If quantum mechanics and the interconnectedness of all things were to become more commonly accepted, education might take a different direction. Dr. Sabina Stanley, U of Toronto, felt the question, What would it take to get to the stars?, remains a favourite. Today we cannot get even a rocket to light speed. Perhaps we will have to fold space to bring Andromeda to us! Dr. Anton Zieleger, a prof. of physics in Vienna, thinks "How real is reality" is most significant. He also believes there'll be another theory, deeper than current quantum mechanical understanding, forthcoming. Dr. Paul Delaney, astronomer and physicist at U.of T., stands by the old, "Do other Earth-like planets exist?" He believes that with 200 billion stars in the Milky Way alone, with billions of other galaxies out there, the Kepler satellite space telescope should close in on something within 4-5 years, which will of course revolutionize our thinking in countless ways. Then we get to send a big "HELLO", and wait 30,000 years for a reply. Dr. Michael Luke, U of T., feels "What's empty space made of?" deserves an answer. First, there's no such thing as empty space; if that were the case, he says, the universe's particles would be massless, with no stable atoms or life possible. Higgs explained this saying that particles interact with space to create mass. Hawking bet $100 that Higgs is wrong, yet particles are measurable, and dark space carries energy which is tearing the universe apart. There are great hopes for the Hadron Collider to answer what constitutes empty space. Well, till later, Natalia Selma wrote: I have just read an interesting book The Raven's Gift by Jon Turk. I am forwarding a youtube in which Turk talks about the subject of the book. I would be interested in your comments: do any of you see any of this as applying to the subject of work? Education, perhaps, since he mentions early education specifically here? What about income distribution, since that also comes up in reference to "greedy corporations". Selma http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyVWxPBtsdI _____ _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
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