REH's retort is a series of straw-men: > Your very assumptions are the same as the people who came here.
Far from that. An atheist Producer's assumptions in Europe are far from those of religious land grabbers who went to America based on Manifest Destiny / sent by their king. Btw, Sweden is a monarchy (with large conquests in medieval Europe), Switzerland is not. > Your self righteousness means that when > someone disagrees with you on anything the result is a withering attack. A controversial discussion is far from murdering people and taking their land. I guess without some self righteousness, my country would have met the fate of the Cherokee, being located in the middle of all those evil Europeans. > We have our version of that but we don't go into your house and say that > it's OK for us to live there in spite of what you think. I don't go into your house. My army hasn't invaded any country, not even in Europe (the last 495 years, anyway -- quite a feat for a European country). I'm sitting in my mountains and talk to you on a Canadian server that's not even located on Cherokee land. If you don't like what I say, you can just ignore me. > Your story about > production and predator is not new and most of all it's not new in its self > righteousness. Being right isn't righteousness, especially when it doesn't kill people. > It's what made the Swedes in Minnesota hang the Sioux > chiefs with impunity. I forwarded your comment to an American in Minnesota. He replied that: "there were almost NO Scandinavians in Minnesota during the Civil War--most of them came later. For example, I was on the Valley Grove Preservation Society and their first church was built in 1862. This was only about 50 km from the Mississippi and it was about as far east as human settlement had gotten. Yes some of their young men had been drafted into the Union Army and many were deathly afraid of the natives, but in truth, the same folks who stole the land from the Indians were the same folks who saddled the poor immigrants with mortgages they would work themselves to death to pay off. The Scandinavians in Minnesota were probably guilty of something but they were FAR from being the sort of power center that could have carried out a mass hanging in 1862. THAT was done by the USA Army. The settlers were just hanging on by their fingernails." Ohmygosh, this Minnesotan actually mentioned REH's employers (past and present ones) as the bad guys. (Without knowing anything about REH.) > It's what makes it OK that Buddhists and Amish settle on sacred > Salish land today (see NYTimes). What do I have to do with religious people who derive privilege from millennia-old scriptures? Did you forget what I wrote about scriptures? > And most of all its what tears in the minds of Indian people who have lost > their way through Christian myths that bear no relationship to the whispers > in their brain from the past. I'm an atheist and I have dismissed religions as Predator schemes. What more do you want? > Your assumptions are the problem. Your straw-men are. > The base rules of your existence are the > same rules that made it OK for people to come here and do what they did. > > Nothing that you have said is different from what I've heard from all of the > other Christian Europeans. Not true, see above and all my earlier writings. Considering your hostility to my position, I really have to wonder how you can live in America at all, among all those even-worse-than-I Europeans. Also, I don't understand how you were able to write an article with Mike Hollinshead about "reconciliation" when you're so full of hate. > Islam and Christianity are no different and their Grandfather religion > doesn't proselytize although their laity have a strong dose of > self-righteous ignorance as well in their stories about monotheism. It's extremely naïve to think that a religion is harmless because it doesn't proselytize. Because the reason why it doesn't proselytize is that it's an elitist, supremacist religion that considers the others slaves and fair game. If you consider yourself exclusively as "God's Chosen Ones", then converting "low-lifes" would be blasphemic, because it's up to God, not to people, to choose who is Chosen. If you still think this religion is harmless, look at how it treats "the other" in Palestine. A zionist who comes from Brooklyn or Russia and claims the land of Palestinians, bulldozing their homes and expelling them abroad, just based on millennia-old scriptures, really doesn't need to proselytize/convert anyone to his religion. So to think that only religions who proselytize are dangerous, is really a mistake. You won't even find a single Christian or Muslim country today that treats other religions as badly as Israel does. And that goes way beyond mere self-righteousness. > Capitalism insists that the owners of complex perceptivity (the Secular > abstract arts) are the elite of society. The answer to underclass culture > is religion. That is as far away from who we are as another planet. What does this have to do with my position? Capitalism is a Predator ideology, as is the concept of "underclass". > Learn about yourself before you preach to the world and learn > for your God's sake learn what you have in common with the Spanish and the > English. Your allegations are not based on reality, as usual. Just remember what you insinuated about those evil Swiss in "the story of Carmen", and then it turned out that Carmen wasn't a Gipsy child but just a fiction story. > We have our own problems here with an arrogant wimp President Wow, I thought you were a fan of the Dems? > and the same > unconscious European system in place as murdered our ancestors in the > beginning and blamed it on their self righteous God. I got that, but I'm not part of that. > I have nothing more to do with anyone who preaches such nonsense whether > they stayed home or not. As if staying home was the only difference... And I didn't know that I preach. What am I doing wrong that all those non-Indian Americans with whom you have to do in America are doing right? I mean, you can't even cross a street in NYC without meeting much worse people than I am, in your eyes. To be consistent, you'd either have to lock yourself up in a reservation or end up like that Muslim US army psychologist who ran amok for Iraq. I still think that coming to non-imperialist Europe would be a better option. Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
