Keith,
Please read my reply to Harry, as the very same will apply to
yourself.
Natalia
On 11/29/2010 1:11 AM, Keith Hudson wrote:
Well said, Harry.
Keith
At 00:57 29/12/2010 -0800, you wrote:
The
racism is all yours,
Ray.
I am happy to treat all peoples the same way. You want to
change the way
things are done according to the way they are in this case the
color of
their skin. Your refusal to accept that there may be a problem
condemns
any chance of making things work.
We had a fine radio personality in Los Angeles named Michael
Jackson. He
was a great host and was very left wing in his politics
something useful
in Hollywood where he could always get celebrity guests. Some
years ago,
he had I think Jesse Jackson on the show and in discussion,
Michael said
If a white mother takes her ill baby into a hospital and two
doctors come
forward one white, the other black who will she hand her baby
to?
They agreed she would hand the baby to the white doctor. Then
Jesse
Jackson added If a black mother brought her ill baby into the
hospital
she would hand it to the white doctor.
There is one problem.
Then we have Cosby saying that if some black kids were walking
toward him
on the sidewalk, he would cross the road. There are many
other
instances of which the factory example was one.
I remember on one occasion pointing out in class that some 80%
of violent
crimes are committed by blacks (I based this on the fact that
80% of the
victims of violent crimes are black.) A student who didnt
believe looked
up the Federal statistics and told the class that hed found
more than 50%
of the murders were committed by blacks. (Ive never checked
that but
assume he properly found it.)
These are in the past I havent looked at this situation in a
long time. I
just hope things are better now. I did see the other day that
we are
wasting money sending kids to college who shouldnt go there.
They drop
out all colors but the largest percentage of drop-outs are
black some 70%
of them.
We should certainly stop wholesale enrollment of kids in
college, but
concentrate on those who wont drop out among them the 30% of
blacks.
Now, if your ideology insists these things arent true, you
cant help the
black people in our society.
There are millions of black people particularly older people -
who dare
not go out in the evening. And the agony of losing a child to
a stray
bullet seems to come up often.
I would love things to change, but it wont come if we refuse
to recognize
the way things are and take steps based on the reality of the
black
experience and the reality of the reaction of non-black people
to it.
But, that wouldnt be politically correct so I fear our black
families
dont have much of a chance.
Harry
From: Ray Harrell
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:41 AM
To: [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK,
INCOME
DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
Subject: RE: [Futurework] Epigenesis -- was Indian
prejudice
Parallel structures Harry. A little bit of information,
too little and an unwillingness to recognize parallel
structures coming
to a conclusion of cooked data and self interest. Sounds
like
racism to me. I was there in Washington Ghetto in 1964,
were you anywhere near a ghetto? You comment sounds
like the dumb comments of simpleminded capitalists from South
Dakota to
Belize who complain about the locals because they wont give
them rights
to just about everything.
I wont talk to you again on either of these posts and if this
attitude continues here my time is wasted. You are not
interested in justice or solutions, only your own
story. The pity is that some of your story on the use
of land parallels mine by I acknowledge national boundaries
and you
dont. Our land use was even called Georgist by the Robber
Barons. But this is all old stuff.
Been there, already talked about it endlessly and there has
been no
movement that I can see so this is a waste. You should
think one word living in California. Okie!
REH
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Harry Pollard
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 3:46 AM
To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,
EDUCATION'; 'Keith
Hudson'
Subject: Re: [Futurework] Epigenesis -- was Indian
prejudice
Ray,
Enterprise factories were set at the edge of black communities
to provide
them with work.
It was found that before very long the factories were filled
with workers
-- Hispanics.
There is a problem with blacks that probably rests on decades
of welfare
-- a problem that is evident in many nonblack welfare state
situations.
It is a lack of industriousness.
What we have done to people by providing welfare instead of
justice is a
crime.
Harry
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Ray Harrell
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 1:05 PM
To: 'Keith Hudson'; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME
DISTRIBUTION,
EDUCATION'
Subject: Re: [Futurework] Epigenesis -- was Indian
prejudice
Bull Shit!
REH
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Keith Hudson
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 11:21 AM
To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION
Subject: [Futurework] Epigenesis -- was Indian
prejudice
Ed,
The puzzling aspect of modern African-Americans is why they
haven't done
much better in the professions, business and politics since
slavery was
abolished. James Flynn, among others, has pretty conclusively
proved that
it's nothing to do with inferior intelligence -- they are as
much up to
the mark as white Americans. The same could be said for the
Dalits of
India or the Buraku and Ainu of Japan. Even though in both
countries the
'untouchable' castes have had full constitutional rights since
the 50s,
and although much is made of the few exceptional individuals,
they hardly
feature at all in any important sphere of life.
The same could be said for the castes at the other end of the
social
scale -- the Brahmins of India or the upper middle-class of
the UK
(which, via Cambridge and Oxford Universities, still almost
completely
dominates business, politics, professions and much else that's
important
ever since this new class rose during the 19th century).
(America is
still supposed to be an equal-opportunity society but it is
becoming
obvious that an elite Harvard-Yale class is already growing
fast in
America, similar to the UK -- and the same in France and
Germany.)
The new and fast-growing field of epigenetics in biology is
now beginning
to give us the reasons why social status, high or low,
perseverates for
generations, and which can't be adequately explained on the
basis of
genes, or nutrition, or education alone. This is the major
discovery that
emerged from the Human Genome Project from 2003 onwards. It
isn't genes
alone (or their potentiation alone) which is inherited, but
also the
particular ways that genes are "set" in order to work in
coalition with others. In fact, without these epigenetic
coalitions the
genes couldn't do their job at all. The agents that decide on
these
genetic settings lie in the DNA but outside the genes
themselves. In
effect these agents act rather like cowboys -- they lasso
genes that lie
at far distances from one another on the DNA (sometimes on
different
chromosomes) and bring them together so the coalition-gene can
do its
stuff efficiently.
There are two important points to this: firstly, epigenetic
settings are
as much involved in propensities of behaviour as much as
physiological
effects; secondly, the settings can be inherited for many
generations, or
even thousands of years, before they might re-set themselves
-- but
feeling their way back to what was the original "standard"
setting may take several generations. If we consider that
culture can be
considered as a social collectivity of behaviour, then
epigenesis is
beginning to explain several mysteries, not only those of long
persistence of social status mentioned above but also why some
cultures/nations cannot manage their economies in the same way
as the
West. For example, Argentina was the fourth most prosperous
country in
the world at the turn of the 20th century when it was selling
vast
quantities of grain and meat to Europe, but somehow they
couldn't
consolidate this in their financial institutions and politics
-- it has
defaulted on its government loans and issued new currencies
several times
since its peak.
Epigenetics is probably the fastest growing sub-field within
biology
(because gene-coalition propensities are also involved in many
diseases
such as type 2 diabetes and many cancers) but what fascinates
me is
that this may finally explain many puzzling features of social
castes but
also economic development of this country or that.
Keith
At 09:15 06/11/2010 -0400, you wrote:
Pete, you say "I rather suspect the primary reason for using
African
slaves was the convenient skin marker that made it impossible
for the
labour to ever be free of pursuit." That may have been a
reason, but not likely the primary one. In building up their
plantations, Europeans tried to use native Indian labour, but
soon found
that the Indians were not immune to European diseases and thus
died off
in large numbers. People from west Africa were generally
immune and
were brought in to replace the indigenous slaves. The chart
below
illustrates what happened in Guatemala.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "pete"
<[email protected]>
To: "RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] Indian prejudice
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2010, Christoph Reuss wrote:
>
>> Malcolm Blackmore wrote:
>> > The MacGregor side of my
>> > family were evicted at gunpoint from the
Highland croft
they rented and
>> > forcibly placed on a boat at Aberdeen to be sent
as
indentured labour to
>> > America.
>>
>> Interesting. Are you saying there was __white
slavery__ in
America?
>
> Pretty much. although indentured labour was supposed to
be paid, and
to
> terminate upon completion of the debt obligation, in many
cases it
was
> contrived in such a way that it was a life sentence. The
main
> distinctions between it and true slavery were that 1)
children
weren't
> the property of the employer, to sell out from their
parents, and 2)
if
> a labourer escaped, and got far enough away, he/she could
blend in
with
> the white population and disappear. In fact, I rather
suspect
the
> primary reason for using african slaves was the
convenient skin
marker
> that made it impossible for the labour to ever be free of
pursuit.
>
> See also the "home children" of Canada, shipped out from
England, who
> were child slave labour, provided with only room and
board, and
confined
> to work, usually as farm labour, for their "guardians"
til
they were 18.
> Some lucked out and were treated as well as the
guardians' own
children
> might have been, but others suffered horrendous
conditions, only
to
> be turned out on the streets malnourished and destitute
upon
reaching
> adulthood.
>
>> Methinks the MacGregors would have had the option to
return to
Europe
>> soon. And before being evicted, they would have had
the option
to get
>> rich. ;-}
>
> I imagine Malcolm can set you straight here, but the
answer is
generally
> no. Getting back to europe was pretty much out of the
question,
but
> making a new life in the new world and having success,
was a
possibility
> if not for the labourers, then at least for their
children. That
is,
> if they survived long enough...
>
> Another very interesting story along these lines is the
saga of
the
> crofters who were subject of rescue attempts by Lord
Selkirk, who
tried
> to provide them with homesteading land in southern
Manitoba, in the
very
> early years of the 19th century, when there was no
overland route
from
> the east coast, and the ships were to deliver 1000
settlers via
> Churchill in Hudson's Bay. The many attempts by
fur-trading
companies,
> principally the Northwest Company, to thwart his rescue
plans on
two
> continents, including fraud, bribery, intimidation, and
finally
murder
> by wholesale massacre with a mercenary militia, make a
very
eye-opening
> story of the brutality of life two centuries ago.
>
> -Pete
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
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>
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Keith Hudson, Saltford, England
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Keith Hudson, Saltford, England
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