Sorry guys, but I read what I wrote and what Keith wrote and Arthur's response and I have a therapist certification, my father was a therapist and counselor and my ex-wife was trained at Columbia and William Alanson White as a psycho-analyst and theatrical character work is far more rigorous than the science side of those questions. Somehow the practical just seems to be missing here. But maybe not. I guess I just have to admit that I have no idea what you are talking about or what you got from what I wrote.
I do get the system of which you and Friedman are speaking but it all seems so "basic". Not something I would give two minutes of my life on this earth for. Can't you come up with something more enlightening or higher ideals than just eat, sleep and go the men's room? I believe it was "Sand Dabs" for Friedman that was the sum total of his existence in his later years according to the NYTimes interview. For me it was Beethoven Sonatas by Glenn Gould and Schubert by Alfred Brendel that brought me back from the rim when I had life threatening surgery. Eating dead things doesn't give my life much meaning. I have to do it but if that's the meaning of life why bother? Keith speaks of differences but it still feels like he believes that if we take off our clothes in a dark room we will still be all the same. I can guarantee you that is not the case. Have any of you ever been through a council Medicine Wheel process with native people? One that took at least of couple of years around community issues? And I'm not speaking of some government program run by you or someone else that was from a Western perspective. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/right-brain-v-left-brain/story-e6frf7jo-111 1114603615 As for projection Arthur, I believe that Inference is a better physical model for that. One looks at a picture and it makes no sense to them so they infer from their own experience until the picture does make sense. I would suggest a good dose of the "Beethoven Virus" for both of you. http://www.hulu.com/watch/182190/beethoven-virus-episode-1#s-p4-so-i0 Spend a little time getting to know the language, the way of relating, the relationship of a foreign people to the roots of your cultural identity and how they approach what is essentially yours and not theirs. At least stay with it long enough to have read through the basic Friedman texts. Don't just sniff and walk away.. Or you could just check out the musician neurologists work on perception and systems. Sachs, "Musicophilia" Lavitin. "Your Brain on Music." >From the "feel" of the Beethoven Virus program I Obviously have more in common with Koreans than with English or Canadian economists. No insult or assault meant here. Listen to the way that they talk to each other. Imagine Englishmen speaking with such intensity comfortably. What would it take? I've had this conversation before with people who simply didn't seem to exist on the same earth as I've walked. However I would tell you that there are many folks of great character, prestige and fame here in New York City who understand me quite well so its not all me and frankly next to the Russians and the Japanese I'm almost pastel. REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 8:26 AM To: 'Keith Hudson'; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Don't categorize! -- was Re: Economists to Consider Ethics Code Interesting response, Keith. I think Freud also had something to say about this. The tendency to project on others some of our own repressed or disliked impulses. arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith Hudson Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 7:39 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: [Futurework] Don't categorize! -- was Re: Economists to Consider Ethics Code At 17:48 03/01/2011 -0500, REH wrote: So Friedman was denying that business that existed in a society had no responsibility to the systems of that society? That it only had a responsibility to itself? Harry, Keith and many of the others on this list have continually argued that business and the market place was a central process in all social activities from monkeys to the present. I'm confused. Your description of Friedmans beliefs sounds like he doesn't agree about the centrality and responsibility for the wealth of everything that almost all of the economic books I own claim as a justification for the definition of value being wealth. Isnt that THE basis for Utilitarianism? Couldnt I use this argument as a basis for an economie of crime? The justification for declaring bankruptcy and walking away from the Uranium Mines in Navajo land or giving the pollution problem in Picher back to the Quapaw? Tell this poor dumb SOB Cherokee Artist who is confused by all of this pale faced horse trading. For the life of me it sounds like cancer. Its a system within a system that has no connection or responsibility to the system beyond its own growth. Tell me where I'm wrong boys. Where you're wrong is that you want to categorize everyone into goodies and baddies, into thises and thats. Everyone alive on earth is the same in his or her basic instincts and motivations. Where we all differ is in our culture, class, inherited epigenes (call them memes if you like) and the particular accidents and opportunities each of us has in childhood, adolescence and early adulthood -- the opportunities for change funnelling down with every passing day. We become increasingly stuck in our roles and act accordingly. Unfortunately, one of the deep traits we've inherited in our genes from millions of years of evolution in quite small groups is to stand on our boundaries and shout "Yaboo!" to the other group. "We're better than you are. You are evil people. We're the good people" we hurl at the others. No great harm was done in hunter-gatherer days apart from a bit of symbolic warfare from time to time or even the odd fatality -- and also our daughters rushing across the no-man's land and marrying a male in the other group. This shouting match is no use any longer in the complicated mess we find ourselves in. And the complicated mess in which we find ourselves is no-one's fault either. The only thing we can blame it on are those mutations which cause our frontal lobes to grow more than they needed to for mere survival. We're far too curious for our own good. But that being said, there's nothing we can do about it except hope that our frontal lobes -- our extra rationality -- might get us out of a mess, too. It's rational arguments we need, not categorizing people because they're superficially different. KSH
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