Don't why all of those question marks are in the text. Please ignore them even if what I have to say is highly questionable.
Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Weick" <[email protected]> To: "RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION" <[email protected]>; "'Gail Stewart'" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [Futurework] The Way of Right Relationship > REH: > >> Enough of that.?There is no hierarchy.?There are just cultures around the >> wheel of existence >working out from the materials of the substance of >> the >> Universe what it means to be human and >real people.?It is my experience >> that we all need each other.??"No man is island." > > Ed: > > Agree, but ever so much depends on the level from which you look at > cultures.?There are wheels within wheels within wheels.?In looking at > things > at the highest level, one assumes a commonality and uniformity of purpose, > as in Germans are all Germans, Indians are all Indians, etc.?As one goes > lower, one learns that, culturally, there are many different kinds of > Germans and many different kinds of Indians.?One finds large, even huge, > differences in practices and language, and moreover that is as true of > Europeans and Asians as it is of Native Americans.? And, tragically, these > differences often lead to hostilities and warfare.?While one likes to > think > that "no man is an island" what one finds is that there are indeed very > many > islands. > > When there is an external force that is large enough to threaten a number > of > wheels, the wheels will unite in common cause to deal with the external > force.?However, when the external force has been dealt with, the wheels > become little wheels again, though they are unlikely to shrink down to > their > original size.?Back in the 1970s a pipeline was proposed that would have > had > a very large impact on the mostly Dene and G'wichin peoples of the Yukon > and > Northwest Territories.?These peoples, which were often not really friendly > toward each other, had thought that they had little in common until the > pipeline proposal came along.?What happened then was a huge common > assertion > of their opposition to the pipeline until their land and self-government > claims were settled and recognized.?During the next few years the pipeline > proposal died but claims and self-government issues continued to be > addressed and were finally settled.?And when they were settled, each of > the > communities reverted to being little wheels again, though they had created > a > larger wheel of structures that continue to address their mutual > interests. > > If there's a moral to this story, it's something like "you gotta know them > wheels are there an' you gotta watch them!" or something like that. > > Ed > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray Harrell" <[email protected]> > To: "'Gail Stewart'" <[email protected]>; "'RE-DESIGNING WORK, > INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION'" <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:44 PM > Subject: Re: [Futurework] The Way of Right Relationship > > >> Hello Gail and Ed, >> >> Thanks for sticking with me on these things. I have a couple of >> comments. >> I give respect to you both for your humanity and your stubbornness in >> seeking solutions to things. >> >> The way I think of this is as a great circle of cultural identities. >> Each >> identity goes back to the beginning of time. Each has a tradition that >> draws upon the knowledge of that legacy. We all sit around a common >> fire >> that constantly transforms reality and affects us all. >> >> Only by sharing our immediate perceptions and the insights of our >> legacies >> can we design a common destiny that brings us all together without >> destroying our individual genius and the knowledge our legacy brings to >> the >> evolution of the world we live in. >> >> >> The problem is the battle for position. From where I sit, it seems >> silly >> for someone on the other side of the circle to insist that they know what >> I'm seeing, hearing, smelling, "sensing" from my position and how I >> interpret that from my heritage. It also seems silly to insist that the >> current fashion in education, public health, economics, spirituality, >> science, history, law or philosophy in any one position is capable of >> comprehending the whole without everyone's help. There is not greater >> insult than to insult one's heritage that gives them identity. Think of >> the phrase "wannabe" and apply it to anyone on this list and you will >> feel >> the sting of insult to one's ancestors. >> >> But that isn't all, for example, my reaction to people here, on this >> list, >> is often from the mood projected by the modality of written language on a >> computer from wildly different perspectives. I find it amazing that we >> all >> stick together given our diversity and the frames we have been given to >> project off on each other. >> >> Even still, I often feel that the members of the dominant society on >> these >> lists believe that Native people, and the artists in their own societies >> as >> well, share a common uselessness. With the natives, usefulness >> (utility) >> is limited to handicrafts and exotics and with the artists it's >> relaxation >> and entertainment. I would be surprised if the bulk of the people on >> this >> list believed that they had anything of use to learn from native people, >> and >> from their own artists in their economy. In a lecture that my father >> gave at Union Theological Seminary in New York in April of 1986 he said: >> >> "One of the reasons that the educators and school systems know so little >> (about us) and have ignored our culture and value systems is that they >> have >> operated on the assumption that there is nothing worthwhile in the >> culture >> to teach or know. (except handi-crafts)." >> >> I won't go any further with that since I've written reams on it or it >> feels >> like I have. Let me just say that the Christian missionaries in my own >> Indian family who went to Korea and Japan both came home emotionally and >> culturally enriched from the cultures they initially set out to change. >> I >> think the case could be made that the former European Empires are poorer >> not >> because they have less things to play with but because their children >> came >> home culturally enriched from their encounters in Africa and Asia with >> societies that they initially considered either decadent or primitive. >> Now >> that they no longer have the rite of passage afforded by empire there is >> nothing except an occasional war to serve the purpose. I don't mean >> this >> in a flippant manner. I had people who were sorry that I was not sent >> to >> Vietnam to "grow up" and instead went to Washington to sing in the White >> House. The lead poison was not enough of a rite passage from childhood, >> they wanted to add cancer and agent orange to the mixture. My >> experience >> is not theoretical but actual in this relationship with the dominant >> society. >> >> My experience with the dominant society has been rewarding in the Arts >> and >> humanities and savage and primitive in so many other ways. But frankly >> put, >> that could just be the language and my cultural assumptions. More about >> that in part two. >> >> So the first comment is that I believe there is NO hierarchy of cultures. >> Just cultures that majored in different things while being incomplete, >> provincial and stupid in their chauvinism when they try to go it alone. >> >> I believe the dominant culture needs what those Inuits have to offer and >> I >> have direct experience as proof. >> >> I have an adopted sister who is from the Arctic. She is Aleut but >> shares >> many of the same experiences as the Inuits. Adding to that experience >> of >> being ripped from the breast of her people when her parents died and sent >> to >> school in Oregon and then to Santa Fe's Institute of American Indian >> Arts. >> Still, she recovered and has had an illustrious life. As an artist she >> has >> performed the Greek Trilogy at Epidoris and at the Parthenon in Greece >> (Clytemnestra and Hecuba). She was in the Peter Brook International >> Company and performed his production of "The Birds." (She studied >> voice >> with me and became a part of my family and the Godmother of my daughter.) >> She also directed and taught acting in my opera company and at Manhattan >> School of Music. The work and exercises that she used in developing >> psycho-physical skills for the company began with the traditional >> education >> of Inuit children in the arctic. There were many Westerners who came to >> the Arctic at that time and studied the traditional skills, techniques, >> endurance and sophisticated linguistic and sensual techniques for >> psycho-physical development of the individual. The very skills that the >> government schools in America and Canada worked to eliminate from the >> First >> Nations peoples. Andre Serban and Peter Brook worked hard to convince >> them to teach them those skills while the American and Canadian >> governments >> worked hard to make them into productive merchants of petroleum products. >> The amazing thing to me was that the Europeans in Europe both understood, >> valued and coveted the native skills while the Europeans here resented >> the >> fact that there WAS something different and of value in the First Nations >> cultures, unless it was handicraft products to be sold by the pound. >> >> As for my sister, after teaching these American opera singers about >> Inuit/Aleut realities she took them to work with Du-yee Chang the great >> Korean actor/director and then the French Bernhardt technique with >> Sylvain >> L'hermitte and Flamenco with Lilliana Morales. There was no hierarchy >> just >> expertise and each group was as hard as the next. >> >> Enough of that. There is no hierarchy. There are just cultures around >> the >> wheel of existence working out from the materials of the substance of the >> Universe what it means to be human and real people. It is my experience >> that we all need each other. "No man is island." >> >> II >> >> The second comment has to do with language. The Cherokee language and >> most >> native languages I'm aware of, have a big thing about the passive voice. >> The passive voice is a way of saying some very outrageous things without >> them being hyper aggressive or causing a loss of face. You can read it >> in >> the Asian, Korean TV programs on the internet where the translations are >> almost violent and the energy of the voices staccato and sharp in attack >> while simply discussing things. Same for the Japanese. In the Asian, >> as >> here, when you change the passive voice into the active English, the >> words >> immediately become hostile and aggressive when they aren't in the >> original. >> In the original you don't have "please" and "thank you" because in the >> passive voice the please and thank you's are assumed. If you say the >> same thing in the Active voice, please and thank you are required to >> reduce the appearance of hostility. >> >> This has become apparent more than ever in a Cherokee language class on a >> mixed list that I'm leading on the internet. The cultural diversity >> extends from Hawaii to Alaska to Canada and the lower forty eight to >> England >> and the Caribbean. I didn't bring up the passive voice to the list. >> That was brought up by a Native American Physics grad from Harvard, on >> the >> list, who spoke of the problem of communication at Harvard and how that >> difficulty has come to help him translate poetry from all over the world >> and become a major American poet. His translations of Chinese poetry are >> actually making money, on Amazon, being sold to Asian Americans to help >> in >> studying English. He has shared with me, on many occasions, that his >> sensitivity began in his Native language and the problems of English at >> Harvard College with the "passive" voice. >> >> Here is an URL: to give you a little more on this by the late Cherokee >> psycho-linguist Dan Alford. His story is not unique in Indian Country. >> >> http://www.enformy.com/moonhawk-nurturing01.htm >> >> >> REH >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gail Stewart >> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:52 PM >> To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION >> Subject: Re: [Futurework] The Way of Right Relationship >> >> Hello Ray, >> >> I understand (I think) your indignation but would like to disabuse you, >> if >> possible, about my posting mentioning posts you had not seen. >> >> I made only three refereces in my posting -- to your article of the same >> day, to Mike Spenser's post of the previous day which I hope and trust >> you >> received, and to my indebtedness to John Verdon of this list for a >> reference >> >> to a book. That reference was not current and may or may not have been >> made >> through this list. (I am indebted to John for a number of references, >> made >> in varous contexts.) >> >> I hope this will help to reassure you that I, at least, doubt there is >> such >> discrimation against you as would have excluded you from any posts made >> to >> the list. >> >> As for discrimination more generally, your own post refers to this and it >> has certainly been my experience, as a Canadian, that we are far yet from >> regarding Canada's aboriginal peoples as brothers under the skin. >> However, >> quite remarkable progress has been made within my lifetime and even among >> my >> >> acquaintance from both cultures. >> >> At the same time, while personal relationships may have improved, I >> believe >> (as my posting tried to point up) that the immensity of the revolution in >> thought required for most of us later immigrants to the Americas to >> understand what it is like to live within rather than merely surrrounded >> by >> our natural environment has barely begun to be appreciated. >> >> It is not just that we have all been, for example, on a burning spree >> with >> fossil fuels and are now trying (and soon likely to be forced) to cut >> back, >> but that this is just the tip of an intellectual reordering of our >> planetary >> >> environmental relationships if we hope to have sustainability of human >> life >> on the planet in anything like our current numbers. >> >> The alternative to rethinking our situation is not pretty and the entire >> matter (including your postings continuously challenging the perceptions >> of >> the dominant society) relates very much to our current concepts of work >> so >> is good grist for our mills on this list. At least that's my view. May >> the >> discussion go on! Work, jobs, what are we trying to do? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Gail >> >> Not really sure of where you're coming from on this, Ray. The people I >> wrote about were Inuit, not Canadian Indian. They had chosen to adapt to >> our way of life even if they still retained some of their traditions. It >> was a choice that they pretty well had to make. Had they not made it but >> adhered to their semi-nomadic hunting-gathering way of life, their >> continuity would have been at risk, perhaps even extreme risk. >> >> Our society's intrusion into their lives is multiple and unstoppable. >> We've >> not only forced them to become clients of our various social institutions >> and services, but we've taken over their lands and waters in a variety of >> ways. We not only make national parks out of them, we explore them for >> oil, >> gas and other resorces. And we tour them and hunt on them. I recall >> flying >> down from a community on the Arctic lslands in a battered old DC-3 some >> years ago. Most of my fellow passengers were American hunters who very >> proudly kept talking about how they got "their" bear or caribou. There >> was >> something very propriety about the conversations. It was as though >> "their" >> bear or caribou had been waiting up in the high Arctic to be shot by >> them. >> Frankly, I found it disgusting, but had to accept that it was an aspect >> of >> the changing nature of the modern Arctic. >> >> Regards, Ed >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ray Harrell" <[email protected]> >> To: "'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'" >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:37 AM >> Subject: Re: [Futurework] The Way of Right Relationship >> >> >>> Sad but not mistaken? Therein lies the problem. Whether to design >>> the >>> environment for the good of all or to eat it slowly like an army of >>> disconnected ants. You think its sad but you do not take the Native >>> systems alternative seriously. The Yonega alternative, to teach the >>> children to ignore their own identity and psycho-physical reality, only >>> works for a short part of their lives. Once they realize they have been >>> tricked out of their birthright all too often the answer is to look >>> reality >>> in the face and choose to leave with suicide or drugs. No capital, no >>> future, no investment in a Yonega's version of success. That's simple >>> basic psychology and choices that are not ir-rational but horrible. >>> How >>> could free Indian foresters want to join such a group that would >>> propagate >>> such a thing as an ideal? >>> >>> The Canadian government thought that creating a reservation for the >>> plants >>> and animals was a respectful alternative economic structure for people >>> whose >>> systems were built on respect and balance for all of the species. It >>> doesn't compute except to show that the government doesn't speak in the >>> language of the First Nations. Those government folks are biased, >>> afraid >>> and stress the active grammatical tense over the passive in their >>> language >>> and communications. Same here, but when we [I] speak in their language >>> and >>> avoid the passive, the translation sends them away even though their >>> horrendous hubris results in genocide. >>> >>> Even today, I don't get materials from this list for discussion. [Gail >>> mentioned posts that I have not received.] I assume its because certain >>> members refused to stay and deal with blunt discussion unless I was >>> excluded >>> from their posts which were rife with inaccuracies and bias. Its OK to >>> overwhelm another culture but its not OK for those cultures to verbally >>> fight back in resistance on the internet. My childhood friends, now >>> Elders, >>> ask me not to talk to their Yonega neighbors because telling them the >>> truth >>> and defeating their argument just feedbacks to their having to deal with >>> powerful and hostile neighbors who strike out because their arguments >>> are >>> irrational and they can't win them verbally. Jesus has forgiven them >>> but >>> He has left them impotent and dangerous. >>> >>> REH >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 7:49 AM >>> To: Gail Stewart; RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION >>> Subject: Re: [Futurework] The Way of Right Relationship >>> >>> I've experienced something like that in the very remotest of northern >>> communities in which people still apologized to the animals they had to >>> kill >>> >>> in order to stay alive themselves. The people were still strongly tied >>> into >>> >>> the ecosphere and they knew it. However, things were changing. Kids >>> learned our view of the world at school, and when they had finished >>> their >>> primary grades they were shipped out to Yellowknife or Inuvik to do high >>> school. Elders were still respected, but as icons more than as sources >>> of >>> ancient wisdom bearing on the ecosystem. >>> >>> In my last visit to one of those communities, about five years ago, I >>> stayed >>> >>> with a local family. I had work to do but found it difficult because >>> the >>> TV >>> >>> was blaring for much of the day. The community was close to a national >>> park >>> >>> that our government had created out of the community's ancient hunting >>> lands, and tourism was expected to become a growing source of income. >>> The >>> people still knew the land, but they expected to increasingly use it as >>> tour >>> >>> guides and not as harvesters. >>> >>> Even if it was all inevitable, I found it a little sad. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gail Stewart" <[email protected]> >>> To: "RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 6:28 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Futurework] The Way of Right Relationship >>> >>> >>>> >>>> (Incidently but not irrelevantly, has anybody on this list ever >>>> experienced >>>> themselves as active participant in the ecosphere, the thin skin of >>>> this >>>> spinning planet, among all its living inhabitants? Might you be willing >>>> to >>>> share something of that experience?) >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Gail >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Futurework mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Futurework mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
