Don't mean to come between you to but just a little comment. When the fathers of my high school buddies were dying of silicosis from working in the mine, it was common practice of the doctors hired by the mining companies to tell them to quit smoking. There was no alcohol, the state was a dry state and it was illegal. Tobacco was the only drug that self medicated and the doctors blamed, by implication, the tobacco for their silicosis. I don't believe venality was limited to Russian communists. The former CEO of IBM World used to say that corporations were just mini-socialist states with the shareholders being the party. Parallel processes in the body act together in synergy. I suspect the same is true in world finance. That's the root of the principles in the Columbian Exchange in World History. The process that made all of that European progress possible at all.
REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of D and N Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 5:07 PM To: [email protected]; RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] Chernobyl book The trouble with your replies, Harry, is that you never acknowledge any possibility of official incompetence or cover-up. You've been bombarded with plenty of reasons for cover-up and can't seem to get past the official reports, as if they will always be true even if shown to be ridiculous. Somehow, you've placed all faith in notoriously corrupt systems' statistics and faulty scientific analyses with a persistent trust. Or is that really it? Perhaps it's not about trust at all--just that you're an apologist for industry in general. US Downwinders were not real victims to you? The government refused to release the data on their radiation exposure until '97, at which time it acknowledged radiation related cancer victims, not limited to thyroid and including leukemia, yet you were silent on the government cover-up and their eventual acknowledgment and compensations I posted. This is a conflict. Radiation causing cancer was officially recognized, but you still maintain a position of denial, though you're only currently outspoken about the Chernobyl book stats. Yet the incidents of cancers by Downwinders are not officially cited in the US National Cancer Institute stats as radiation-caused either as you go year by year, though the NCI does recognize radiation-induced cancers. They recognize them, yet you don't. How do you figure? All the figures you have listed below mean little to me because you've obtained them from sources who gathered them from corrupt sources. Blaming cancers on the individual, as in smokers, is convenient, rather than paying compensation for industrial negligence and governmental callousness and incompetence. Yes, Europeans and Russians smoke and drink. That is a fact, and that they'll die of it is fact. But the USSR were notorious for dumping huge amounts of toxic material into the same waters that supplied drinking water, and for chronic improper toxic disposal on land as well. They had no safety laws in place that were ever upheld because all industry was government owned. That's the venal system by which you're publicly declaring your standards of truthful stats. Natalia On 4/3/2011 7:07 PM, Harry Pollard wrote: Natalia, We are still discussing a military reactor that was used to produce plutonium in an old graphite reactor without a containment vessel - not really to be compared with civilian power reactors. Or, with nuclear power reactors in more than 100 vessels at sea. Here's a quote about Russian life expectancy which mentions he real danger to people in Russia - and to Eastern Europe generally in the next paragraph which I didn't copy. You'll note that female life expectancy is 13 years longer than males. I suppose radiation affects men more than women - or perhaps in this case not very much. ///////////////////// However, the European average is pulled down by Russia; in 2001, this large country of 144 million people has a male life expectancy at birth of only 59 years and a female life expectancy at birth of 72 years. Male life expectancy in Russia declined over the last decades of the twentieth century, and shows no indication of improvement. A considerable amount of research has focused on the trend of increasing mortality (and concomitant decreasing life expectancy) among Russian men, pointing to a number of contributing factors: increased poverty since the fall of communism, which leads to malnutrition, especially among older people, and increases susceptibility to infectious diseases; unhealthy lifestyle behaviors, including heavy drinking and smoking, sedentary living, and high-fat diets; psychological stress, combined with heavy alcohol consumption, leading to suicide; and a deteriorating health care system. Read more: Life Expectancy - world, body, cause, time, human, The Measurement of Life Expectancy, Life Expectancy at Birth, Circa 2001 http://www.deathreference.com/Ke-Ma/Life-Expectancy.html#ixzz1IU7JXmyT. /////////////////// Apparently, It's not so much radiation - Russian men are killing themselves. Ukraine life expectancy - 2011 - is 63 for males, 75 for females. Once again it appears that females are less affected by radiation than males - or that they do less smoking and drinking than the men. The trouble with the 987,000 Chernobyl created deaths as was suggested by your scientists is they don't seem to appear in the general statistics of deaths. Even the most usual radiation effect, thyroid cancer, is a comparatively minor global problem with incidence and mortality occurring mostly in places far from Chernobyl and apparently untouched by the accident. Belarus that, according to the Russians, received 60% of the fallout from Chernobyl offers some interesting statistics - the deaths that occurred. Here are a selection in thousands Pre-Chernobyl 1984 104 1985 105 During Chernobyl: 1986 97 1987 99 Followed by: 1990 109 1993 128 1999 142 2002 146 (highest) 2007 132 2010 137 (latest) Looks like there could be a "deaths" connection in this most radiated place. But, we are a long way from 987,000 deaths from an area that received 60% of the fallout. Harry ****************************** Henry George School of Los Angeles Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 (818) 352-4141 ****************************** From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of D and N Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 12:05 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: [Futurework] Chernobyl book Harry, >From the Guardian, UK http://www.theglobalreport.org/?section=archives <http://www.theglobalreport.org/?section=archives&cat_id=20&article_id=507> &cat_id=20&article_id=507 Mar. 25- United Nations nuclear and health watchdogs have ignored evidence of deaths, cancers, mutations and other conditions after the Chernobyl accident, leading scientists and doctors have claimed in the run-up to the nuclear disaster's 20th anniversary next month. In a series of reports about to be published, they will suggest that at least 30,000 people are expected to die of cancers linked directly to severe radiation exposure in 1986 and up to 500,000 people may have already died as a result of the world's worst environmental catastrophe. But the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and World Health Organization (WHO) say that only 50 deaths can be directly attributed to the disaster, and that, at most, 4,000 people may eventually die from the accident on Apr. 26, 1986. They say only nine children have died of thyroid cancers in 20 years and that the majority of illnesses among the estimated 5 million people contaminated in the former Soviet Union are attributable to growing poverty and unhealthy lifestyles. An IAEA spokesperson said he was confident the UN figures were correct. "We have a wide scientific consensus of 100 leading scientists. When we see or hear of very high mortalities we can only lean back and question the legitimacy of the figures. Do they have qualified people? Are they responsible? If they have data that they think are excluded then they should send it." The new estimates have been collated by researchers commissioned by European parliamentary groups, Greenpeace International and medical foundations in Britain, Germany, Ukraine, Scandinavia and elsewhere. They take into account more than 50 published scientific studies. "At least 500,000 people - perhaps more - have already died out of the two million people who were officially classed as victims of Chernobyl in Ukraine," said Nikolai Omelyanets, deputy head of the National Commission for Radiation Protection in Ukraine. "[Studies show] that 34,499 people who took part in the clean-up of Chernobyl have died in the years since the catastrophe. The deaths of these people from cancers were nearly three times as high as in the rest of the population. "We have found that infant mortality increased 20 percent to 30 percent because of chronic exposure to radiation after the accident. All this information has been ignored by the IAEA and WHO. We sent it to them in March last year and again in June. They've not said why they haven't accepted it." Evgenia Stepanova, of the Ukrainian government's Scientific Center for Radiation Medicine, said: "We're overwhelmed by thyroid cancers, leukemias and genetic mutations that are not recorded in the WHO data and which were practically unknown 20 years ago." The IAEA and WHO, however, say that apart from an increase in thyroid cancer in children there is no evidence of a large-scale impact on public health. "No increases in overall cancer incidence or mortality that could be associated with radiation exposure have been observed," said the agencies' report in September. In the Rivne region of Ukraine, 310 miles west of Chernobyl, doctors say they are coming across an unusual rate of cancers and mutations. "In the 30 hospitals of our region we find that up to 30 percent of people who were in highly radiated areas have physical disorders, including heart and blood diseases, cancers and respiratory diseases. Nearly one in three of all the newborn babies have deformities, mostly internal," said Alexander Vewremchuk, of the Special Hospital for the Radiological Protection of the Population in Vilne. Figures on the health effects of Chernobyl have always been disputed. Soviet authorities covered up many of the details at the time. The largest radiation doses were received by the 600,000 people involved in the clean-up, many drawn from army conscripts all over the Soviet Union. Source: Guardian (UK) Below, from the New York Academy of Sciences, Volume 1181, you will find the document by Yablakov, Nesterenko and Nesterenko. It demonstrates their findings, and the reasons why they are not common knowledge. I could not copy any of it for you, but if you truly subscribe to the scientific method, you will look at it as well as the propaganda reports. Natalia <http://books.google.ca/books?id=g34tNlYOB3AC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=Chernobyl+ liquidators,+cancer+rates&source=bl&ots=O15UhV1Ye9&sig=IdpD5XBjR70Fscu1rkHA7 EVHOlE&hl=en&ei=BQ2WTd6FLM_OiAKxrY32CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum= 10&ved=0CGsQ6AEwCTge#v=onepage&q=Chernobyl%20liquidators%2C%20cancer%20rates &f=false> http://books.google.ca/books?id=g34tNlYOB3AC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=Chernobyl+l iquidators,+cancer+rates&source=bl&ots=O15UhV1Ye9&sig=IdpD5XBjR70Fscu1rkHA7E VHOlE&hl=en&ei=BQ2WTd6FLM_OiAKxrY32CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1 0&ved=0CGsQ6AEwCTge#v=onepage&q=Chernobyl%20liquidators%2C%20cancer%20rates& f=false _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
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