I only entered this discussion when the issue of strategic voting was mentioned. As though everyone was interested in ways to vote strategically in order to defeat Mr. Harper.
I would have preferred to keep election matters where they belong, on another list. Once it was raised and when it seemed that everyone was on side to defeat one of the parties I thought it was time for some balance. arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gail Stewart Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 5:29 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: FW: Fw: Defeat Harper on May 2nd - Information on strategic voting and more Sorry to be fussy about this Arthur but it seems to me we need to be precise. I don't think your posting is helpful in this regard. It is not "if Mr. Harper gets a majority" and "going along with the decision of voters" that determines who will govern Canada as Prime Minister. It matter of gaining and maintaining the confidence of Parliament. In Canada, the office of Prime Minister is determined in Parliament, not by Canadians directly, so your statements are not accurate. In Canada, the confidence of Parliament is first offered to the leader of the party which has the greater number of seats, which is not necessarily a majority. Further, even a majority government can fall if it loses the confidence of Parliament in a vote. (Remember Joe Clark's government when it did not count the potential votes correctly, lost its majority on a confidence vote, and fell.) Peter Russell (Professor Emeritus, U of T) has been very helpful in reminding Canadians how our system of government works. Unfortunately, Mr. Harper was not truthful about this when he sought and succeeded in proroguing Parliament and he has continued to try to confuse the electorate during the present election campaign. This, in my view, is both dangerous and demogogic and would be so no matter which party leader might do it. Michael is surely right with his numerical examples. Your misstatement about how our government works, and then seeking to bait Michael with a partisan example is -- it seems to me -- inappropriate to this list and to the discussion between the two of you. It is also destructive to our understanding of our institutions. I would not enter ithe discussion in this way if I did not think these issues to be of vital importance to our peaceful democracy. Nor would I do this if I were not so concerned about what can happen to it when elected leaders (or candidates for Parliament) do not speak truth to Canadians and thus undermine our trust in them and in each other. We could get into a terrible situation, of great confusion, if this behaviour continues, opening the way to improper uses or even seizures of power. This business of not telling Canadians the truth about our Parliamentary democracy is therefore not a partisan but a matter beyond party politics. It should be of concern to all Canadians, whatever their party preference. Spinning the truth to us about how we govern ourselves, or outright lying about it is risky and irresponsible behaviour and unbecoming to those who know or even should know better. I would refer us all to Peter Russell and the effort he is making to have us understand how our institutions function. We may indeed want to change these but it is of great importance that we do so democratically. In the meantime it is important wew not undermine this possibility for mere partisan purposes. To do so is surely contemptible behaviour, weakening and divisive to the nation. Currently, in my view, we have a problem in this regard. I would like to think that all of us on this list who are citizens of Canada and whatever our party preference may be, would share in this concern. Regards, Gail ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Cordell <mailto:[email protected]> To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' <mailto:[email protected]> ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: FW: Fw: Defeat Harper on May 2nd - Information on strategic voting and more I repeat we do live in a democracy and if Mr. Harper gets a majority, then we go along with the decision of voters I wonder if you would have a problem if Mr Layton got a majority of seats with something like 25 percent or so of potential voters? arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Gurstein Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:47 PM To: [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: FW: Fw: Defeat Harper on May 2nd - Information on strategic voting and more That's a wee bit coy.. since we have a first past the post system and a declining proportion of voters overall it would quite likely be possible for Harper to get a majority of seats in Parliament with not only not a majority of overall voters (the estimate is currently 40% as the magic number) but with something like 25% or so of potential voters! This is deeply troubling to many/most folks who are thinking about this (with less concern among those whose party happens to be on the sunny side of 40% of course) and one can only hope for a set of circumstances that would bring about a rather more "democratic" structure. (In the previous election, the Greens received 12% (?) of the votes and 0 seats, while the NDP received 17% (?) and 32 (?) seats... (doing all of this from a faultering memory... M -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:39 AM To: [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: RE: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] FW: Fw: Defeat Harper on May 2nd - Information on strategic voting and more Well we do live in a democracy and if Mr. Harper gets a majority, then we go along with the decision of voters. arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Gurstein Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:30 PM To: [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: RE: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] FW: Fw: Defeat Harper on May 2nd - Information on strategic voting and more Yes, that is the fear! M -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harry Pollard Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:18 AM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'; [email protected] Subject: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] FW: Fw: Defeat Harper on May 2nd - Information on strategic voting and more Saw the debate between Harper and his opponents on TV. Without knowing much about contemporary Canadian politics, I thought that Harper handled himself very well - answered the questions directly and with authority. By far the best of the others was the spokesman for the New Democratic Party. He stayed good-humored and asked questions that seemed straight to the point. On the strength of this debate, I will be surprised if Harper doesn't get his majority in the election. Harry ****************************** Henry George School of Los Angeles Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 (818) 352-4141 ****************************** From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Gurstein Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:46 AM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'; [email protected] Subject: [Futurework] FW: Fw: Defeat Harper on May 2nd - Information on strategic voting and more Fw: Defeat Harper on May 2nd - Information on strategic voting Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:14 PM From:"Linda Belanger" Former Nortel employees have launched their own campaign against the Conservatives, including Baird, Poilievre and Cannon. See why: http://www.silverfoxalliance.com/media_release.html <http://www.silverfoxalliance.com/media_release.html> Please get informed and vote strategically to defeat Stephen Harper on May 2nd. A few background and activist links to help with the strategic voting discussion. We need to remember that a vote for a candidate translates ultimately as a vote for the leader of the party that wins the most seats in the House of Commons -- therefore the Prime Minister. - Rabble's Election 2011 coverage: http://www.rabble.ca/rabblerouser - Catch22: http://catch22campaign.ca/profiles/blog/show?id=5139919%3ABlogPost%3A14055 <http://catch22campaign.ca/profiles/blog/show?id=5139919%3ABlogPost%3A14055&; commentId=5139919%3AComment%3A14308&xg_source=activity> &commentId=5139919%3AComment%3A14308&xg_source=activity - Vote swap: http://www.votepair.ca/tag/online-activism/ - Danny Williams' ABC (Anything But Conservative) campaign: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anything_But_Conservative - "Canada's Newest Faith-Based Political Party": "Strategic voting is probably best explained as casting a vote against a party rather than for one you support. Chances of defeating the Conservative candidate in your area are greater if everyone concentrates their efforts on electing the candidate with the best chance of winning against him. You can find out which candidate this is in your area by using: http://regressiveconservative.ca/voting-guide.php " --- - "A swing district is an area where the margin between the number of votes cast in the last election for the Conservative candidate, and the candidate with best return against them is particularly small. This is important because if the Conservative won, this is an area where overthrowing them in the next election is somewhat easier. If the Conservative lost, this district is at high risk of falling to the Conservatives next time. For this reason special effort should be taken to support the candidate with the best bet against the Conservative candidate next election." http://regressiveconservative.ca/faq.shtml - An interesting analysis: http://www.probeinternational.org/old_drupal/UrbanNewSite/strategicvoting.pd f Former Nortel employees have launched their own campaign against the Conservatives, including Baird, Poilievre and Cannon: http://www.silverfoxalliance.com/media_release.html Hope this will help jumpstart the discussion. * * * * * * * HAVEN'T DECIDED WHO TO VOTE FOR? Saturday, April 16, 2011 8:06 PM From: Gary Keenan Greetings all Very clever and informative: Check it out and forward. http://compellingcomics.justsomeguy.com/CanadaVotes2011/Canada.html "Oh Canada, we stand on guard for thee..." Remember, the barbarians are in our midst!!! G.K. * * * * * * * Elections Canada "Message Mob" http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=139940866078782 Time: Saturday, April 16 at 1:00pm - April 23 at 9:00pm Location: Canada Created By: Anna Hopkins More Info ***Please invite others in your network; let's try to reach 5000 by the end of the weekend!*** As you saw today, Elections Canada just put an end to special ballot voting stations on campuses. Given that Election Canada publicly campaigns to increase the youth vote, this is a step in the wrong directly and is bending to partisan interests and complications. I'm asking you to call Elections Canada or submit a message online, to show your support for special ballot voting stations on campuses, and to express your discontent with the change. 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