Subject: RE: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] Musing on the Vancouver Stanley Cup riot
John, Since my posting started this "discussion" , let me say how sad it makes me to see the shouting match that broke out. John, I really don't know what you are thinking or your starting point but somewhere in the background is a DND ethos. Your home department. To those who say why are Canadians dying in Afghanistan, the answer has to be "well people have died over the years and that is why we have democracy today...." And so on. All I did was say that the current paradigm is not adequate to organize Canadians to social action and commitment, not to mention something that gets them going each day. I was met with pessimist, cynic and almost called "defeatist". The latter being that old chestnut from past wars. And it is with respect that I say this since I think you have an unusual and eclectic intelligence. Perhaps this is how you have or had been able to survive so long within DND, by thinking way out of the box. To a degree that your writings on this issue have no practical policy use. And doesn't threaten the established order. Only by leaping ahead to some hypothetical future and drawing on past successes (called such, because we are here even though many have died) can you say that all will be well, albeit with some evolutionary adjustments along the way. This has been "a trip". But still, John, you haven't answered my original posting on the need for a positive vision for the future. Or, perhaps you have answered it: in the mishmash of techno optimism and sci fi musings there is no practical policy oriented vision of the future that is possible. Which in itself is quite sad. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David M Delaney Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 10:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] Musing on the Vancouver Stanley Cup riot On 11-06-18 12:54 AM, John Verdon wrote: > The future is full of very serious problems - but even the scope of > our discussion about 'what to do' implies a level of human > intervention on the scale of 'terra-forming' and the need to increase > our own willful re-shaping of our selves and human societies - which > means more not less human intervention. So far this is a typical techno-optimist cornucopian dream, but then you wander off into acknowledging one of the simple, devastating, and conclusive, arguments that it's nonsense: > When we recognize that the whole thing is a complex system - we don't > know how small a difference will make a difference nor how big a > difference will make no difference at all. We have no idea of how a > well-intentioned reasoning will compound itself in the long to produce > unintended consequences (positive or negative) Strange. Paraphrase: "We have to manage society, the biosphere, and resources globally, (implicit: if we are to keep seven billion plus people alive) but that's impossible to do successfully." Sounds like a valid reductio ad absurdum. (In spite of the fact that global cooperation on the scale necessary to test the conclusion is also impossible.) ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ottawadissenters/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ottawadissenters/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
