I'm not getting several of the posts being mentioned on the list. I posted this reply to Keith as well as other but it didn't appear in my e-mail. Am I finally getting censored?:>)) Life is tough. My favorite restaurants are raising their prices, 1/3 of the nation is poverty and I had breakfast between two Texans today and couldn't get a word in edgewise. Lots of smiley faces. REH
Thanks Keith, I often agree with you and write nice things when I do. Then there is that other side:>)) For me, it is not about warming or cooling but change. Knowing which and knowing how to protect the life on the planet (and not just human life) since my belief about the purpose of humanity is that we are the gardeners with the responsibility for more than just our own "asses" so to speak. I don't agree with most of the modern farming methods on or off land. I think the current crop of humans are unsubtle and kind of stupidly coarse when it comes to the application of our scientific know how. I believe there is a domain and purpose to the "knowing" what something is, how it works and archiving it in such a way as to have referential transparency. But everyone has a scientific part of their personality and one part shouldn't "Lord" it over another lest they be labeled savants. As an Artist I find myself having to use terms, scientific and otherwise, that I was never taught, in the overspecialized schools of mid 20th century, since science is now the language of the world. On the other hand I sure wish there was more aesthetic sophistication from the other side and Dawkin's, Hawking's, Russell's and Freud's examination of the spiritual side has a distinctly emotional and irrational contingent that parallels economic science's silly comments about subjectivity in the Arts and Aesthetics, as if there were no standards. Steven Pinker's comments about music as evolutionary cheesecake and that the world is getting better is another example of something that makes no sense whatsoever to me given my experience with the current economic and scientific aristocracy. The New York Philharmonic and Metropolitan Opera are certainly getting better but at what a cost to the rest of the society? 1/3 of the American people are now in poverty, me included, but the world is getting better according these scientists and their fight with their mothers over whether they had enough breast feeding, the fight they call "religion" in adult life, does not speak well for their thinking. The one who has an excuse is Hawking. His inhibitions have made him both magnificent and limited. Climate change is here. But which change and why and how must we be good garden/foresters of the planet for the good of all. Got to go to a meeting. Have a wonderful day. REH From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:00 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION; Ray Harrell Subject: Re: [Futurework] The Coming Green Wave: Ocean Farming Good gracious!! I find myself agreeing with Ray. Just to update the following account a little bit, the latest satellite temperature recordings (now with about 30 years of continuous comparable records) show that mid-atmospheric temperatures (the ones that were previously considered crucial by the global warmists) are declining, not rising. I'll grant the global warmists one concession. Eleven thousand years of agriculture (that is, of mass forest burning) and 200 years of mass fossil fuel burning have undoubtedly put more CO2 into the air than otherwise and may have delayed the next Ice Age but the latter is still infinitely more on the cards than any 'runaway' global warming. Keith At 05:39 30/11/2011, REH wrote: Mike Hollinshead and I wrote a paper for the Canadian Truth and Reconciliation commission. Here is a section about the environment that we wrote: From: Crossing the Divide, Mike Hollinshead and Ray Evans Harrell copyright 2007 "What will add bite to this situation is the fact that two other great forces will come into play which no-one is paying attention to: a devastating cooling in global climate, which may rival the cold temperatures at the worst point of the Little Ice Age; and a new industrial revolution which is going to radically reorder the global economic pecking order and, therefore, the relative military capacities of the great powers and produce new weapons of extraordinary power and risk. Contrary to the consensus, global cooling is a far greater risk than global warming. Anthropogenic global warming (AGW) is a dead issue, people just do not know it yet. The ice cores show quite clearly that CO2 levels grow following a warming, not before, so that the modern rise in CO2 is due to the natural warming which occurred as the world came out of the Little Ice Age after the mid 18th century. Warming oceans exhale CO2. Moreover, when CO2 levels grew faster after 1950, global temperatures fell until 1975. They only rose after 1975 and then started to fall again after 1998. They are still falling. During all this time, CO2 levels have continued to climb. There is clearly no correlation between CO2 levels and global temperature. The warming has all occurred at measurement sites in the far north, in Canada and Russia. Everywhere else temperatures have been level or falling. It is night temperatures that have been measured to rise. Almost certainly, the measured warming is due to the growth of northern communities, new activities such as power generation and mining there and improved space heating, all of which create what is called an urban heat island effect and create a spurious warming effect which is highly local. Any warming which has occurred, for example between 1900 and 1950, is therefore natural and has been driven by cycles in the output of the Sun. Scientists who study the Sun are unanimous in forecasting that the next solar cycle, which is about to begin, will see much lower solar activity. It may go as low as the minimum seen in the late 17th century, which saw widespread crop failures around the world and was a significant contributing factor to the social and economic unrest which led to the Thirty Years War and the civil wars in England and France. The solar minimum is expected to last from 2015 to 2040, with the lowest point at the end. Climatic cooling slows the world's wind system. The winds which carry rain to the continental interiors, where most of the world's food is grown, weaken and frequently fail. The same is true for the South and Central American Highlands. Drought causes crop failures. It was drought caused by climatic cooling which brought all the great world civilizations down, including those in the Americas. The droughts which accompanied the Little Ice Age which began in the early 13th century weakened the American civilizations and made it easier for the Europeans to conquer them. When the wind systems are weak, the jet streams are also weak and tend to wander further away from the poles. They also tend to lock in place, creating great loops which, depending on where they do so, can bring tropical air to the Boreal Forest and Arctic air to the Gulf of Mexico. The tropical air brings torrential rains and devastating floods. So, ironically, cooler climate creates more extreme weather. That is what we are experiencing now: a continual see-sawing between extremes of heat and flood caused by locked jet stream loops. In the world of today, where food reserves are minimal and are being reduced further as food crops such as corn are being diverted into producing biofuels, this is not good news. What is even worse news is that cool periods begin suddenly. The 1290s were the warmest decade of the Medieval Warm Period. The ten years after 1312 were some of the coldest of the Little Ice Age which followed, and caused crop failures and famines several years in a row around the world. In principle, the effects of a sudden cooling today on food production and nutrition need not be that devastating. In the civilizations of the 13th century, there was a limited number of crops which were tuned to a narrow range of climatic conditions, very poor transportation systems and a limited role for markets in food products. Today a wide range of crops which thrive in a wide range of conditions is available anywhere in the world. Efficient transportation systems exist which can move food rapidly around the globe from surplus to deficit regions. And we have highly efficient market oriented agricultural systems which respond quickly to changing conditions. Huge quantities of grain could be freed up for humans by radically reducing domestic livestock populations and the adoption of a low meat diet. However, successful adaptation requires that there be sufficient anticipation that sufficient seeds of the right kind are available when they are needed, that farmers are prepped and ready to change, that people are ready to change their diets and that the world system is disposed to share surpluses with starving people with no money to buy food. None of these things can be taken for granted. A world view infused with Aboriginal myths and values such as are contained in the First and Third Fires and the principles of balance, harmony and everyone included in the community of concern would go a long way to ensuring that the correct measures will be taken in time. Coolings are also associated with pandemics of disease. In fact, every great disease pandemic in history correlates with a sudden climatic cooling. Failed crops mean starvation for people and their livestock. Starving people migrate in search of food for themselves and their animals. Starving people will eat things which they would not normally consider and which may even be taboo because they are known to carry disease, such as the marmots living on the border of Tibet and China, which carry the bacterium which causes bubonic plague. In the early 13th century, malnourished, migrating steppe nomads contracted the disease in this way and then carried it into China and Eastern Europe and the Balkans, from whence it spread to Western Europe. It killed between one third and one half of the populations of China and Europe. AIDs and Ebola fit this pattern. A sudden cooling at this stage of human history could spring pathogens and their hosts out of their usual places in nature and into close contact with humans. This risk will be especially high in areas where deforestation is reducing the habitat of many species and bringing people in contact with them who have no resistance and, being recent immigrants, have no local knowledge to leave things alone. The mega cities of the Third World, with their tens of millions of people living in unsanitary and sub-standard housing and with poor medical and public health systems could become reservoirs of infection, which modern air transport would spread worldwide in weeks before medical authorities fully realized what was going on. Warfare would make the situation worse, as it destroys the infrastructure which shelters, feeds and clothes people and treats their illnesses. Invaders steal crops and food and destroy houses, factories, hospitals, clinics, roads and bridges. This is what happened in the 13th and 17th centuries in Europe, in the 13th century in China and in the Americas in the 15th century. An example closer in time is the mass starvation in Biafra during the Nigerian civil war. New technologies always spawn new weapons. The same atlatl that made killing mastodons and bison more efficient also made killing humans more efficient. Nine thousand year old Kennewick Man had an atlatl point in his hip. One doesn't suppose it got there by accident. Gunpowder made highly decorative fire works; it also made highly effective firearms. Steel made excellent needles and razors; it also made quick-firing artillery, tanks and dreadnought battleships. The atomic bomb may be the only new weapon that was intended from the beginning as a weapon and then found a peaceful (though highly dangerous) use. Biotechnology and nanotechnology are no different. The major powers have been making biochemical weapons for half a century already. The Russians continued to develop them despite an agreement with the United States to stop developing them and destroy stockpiles, an agreement the Americans seem to have kept. The Russians have developed hyper-toxic antibiotic-resistant variants of plague and smallpox as well as anthrax. It is expected that the nano-bio-technology technique of self-assembly will lead to potent, intelligent weapons which can be manufactured in quantity virtually over night. They would make themselves. An arms race could begin one day and be over the next i.e. the war may have already been fought and won in 48 hours. These are ideal weapons for terrorists and failed states: small, cheap to make, and easy to learn how to do in the age of the Internet. Some would argue this what you get when you do alchemy without a sense of the sacred. We need a bio-nano arms ban before an arms race begins. ------------ COMMENT: We coauthored this paper on the problem of reconciliation between populations that were destroyed by the theft of Indian Children and the destruction through church schools of the Indian culture. Since Indian culture is based in the study of nature and the management of natural systems for the good of the whole of the environment, it was natural that there would be a section on the stories evolving about global warming and climate change. The connection of these things to the history of the "Little Ice Age" around the world, how it happened, what it's processes were and the order of those processes. What the affects were on the people and how that compares to the present. I would welcome any discussion about these points that we made. We are talking about large patterns of cycles that have a human component but given the current problems of understanding large scale systems like the weather, plus the myths of human potency in these things I feel a healthy skepticism. Western science has been horrendous at replacing native Agricultural technology choosing instead to go the route of Monsanto. The subtle care of the Forests of the nation has been completely beyond modern science and Western patience. What was a massive garden has become a mess and a forest gone to seed. We seem completely incapable of understanding natural systems at all. So I'm afraid that I have a healthy skepticism about a lot of this stuff but I welcome any discussion of these comments. There is an earlier section in the paper that speaks more about the problems of weather systems but I thought that you all probably know a lot about that anyway given your expertise. This section is about observation and interpretation of certain core data as well as the history of parallel patterns in earlier eras and what happened. Thanks in advance. REH -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Mike Spencer Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Futurework] Re: The Coming Green Wave: Ocean Farming Regarding: http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/11/the-coming-green-wave-ocean - farming-to-fight-climate-change/248750/ Pete wrote: > This article is rather disinformative with its use of semi-science > terminology which is simplified to the point of being wrong > .... > Extraordinarily sloppy writing, obviously a techno-illiterate. Thanks, Pete. Was going to write something like that but procrastinated and you beat me to it. It is rumored that way back when I went to collitch, people got a better education than they do today. But I recall those of my contemporaries who were on the humanities side of CP Snows two cultures fulfilled their university science requirement by taking botany 101 and zoology 101. These consisted chiefly of memorizing the taxonomic hierarchies of the plant and animal kingdoms. As a result, for many very bright and (for practical career purposes) well educated people, simple chemistry is a black art and "The Chemicals" is a bogey-man word. It's no wonder that "environmentalism" or "climate change" are seen as political conspiracies when so many people have approximately zero mental tools to evaluate professional pronouncements on the science, never mind the journalistic contributions of techno-illiterates. - Mike -- Michael Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada .~. /V\ [email protected] /( )\ http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/ <http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A 0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0> ^^-^^ _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/11/
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