Hi, Mike S.

Thanks for the masterful contribution to the discussion.  I kept thinking of my 
seaweed salad at our local sushi place, and wondering where it came from, 
business-wise.

Can you say more about what is happening in Nova Scotia regarding "being 
regulated out of existence."

Regarding eutrification and your lake: has the lake shrunk due to the build-up 
of soil/material in it, or lowering water table, or?

Cheers,
Lawry


On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:33 AM, Mike Spencer wrote:

> 
> Regarding my comments on:
> 
>    The Coming Green Wave: Ocean Farming to Fight Climate Change
> 
>    by Brendan Smith
>    November 23, 2011
>    
> http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/11/the-coming-green-wave-ocean-farming-to-fight-climate-change/248750/
> 
> 
> Mike G. wrote:
> 
>> Okay Mike so you don't think too much of what was said or the guy
>> who said it... We get that but what exactly is wrong with what was
>> written.
> 
> Um, well, I though Pete went into considerable detail on exactly what
> was written.
> 
>  + Confusing nitrogen with nitrate & nitrite in water
> 
>  + Confusing nitrogen with nitrogen oxides in air
> 
> Yes, in agriculture, in the lab and perhaps elsewhere, referring to
> the nitrogen (or phosphorus or potash -- aka potassium -- or other
> elemental) content of fertilizer and other materials  is accepted
> shorthand in the same way that measuring propane in BTUs (instead of
> units of mass or volume) is HVAC engineering shorthand.
> 
> But it's not good expository science writing, sufficiently not good
> that I suspect the writer of not understanding what he's writing about.
> 
> But suppose we overlook that.  Say the author means well and is
> striving to pass on a Big Idea.  Lets look at a couple of paragraphs:
> 
>    Seaweed farms alone have the capacity to grow massive
>    amounts of nutrient-rich food. Professor Ronald Osinga
>    at Wageningen University in the Netherlands has
>    calculated[6] that a global network of "sea-vegetable"
>    farms totaling 180,000 square kilometers - roughly the
>    size of Washington state - could provide enough protein
>    for the entire world population.
> 
>    The goal, according to chef Dan Barber[10] -- named one
>    of the world's most influential people by Time and a
>    hero of the organic food movement -- is to create a
>    world where "farms restore instead of deplete" and allow
>    "every community to feed itself."
> 
> The second paragraph is, very roughly, about the now much maligned
> "back to the land" impulse of the 60s, of which I am to some degree an
> exemplar.  This is intrinsically a small-scale concept, one requiring
> a lot of work otherwise eliminated by the mechanization of megafood
> agribusiness and promising either expensive food of the acceptance of
> minimal incomes by the producer.  Nice, doable with dedication but
> presently being regulated out of existence here in Nova Scotia.
> 
> The first paragraph, though, that talks about feeding the *whole
> world*, is talking about Soylent Yellow, krill and seaweed protein.  A
> staple of a whole genre of not-with-a-bang-but-a-whimper apocalyptic
> science fiction.  Kelp burgers, krill-mush.
> 
> If these two paragraphs in sequence don't engender a frisson of
> cognitive dissonance, you're reading too fast.
> 
> Lets take another:
> 
>    But rather than monolithic factory fish farms, they see
>    the oceans as the home of small-scale farms where
>    complementary species are cultivated to provide food and
>    fuel....
> 
> Small scale?  Fuel?  How many homes can you heat, megawatts can you
> generate from anything "small scale"?  The notion of turning corn and
> other non-byproduct food into fuel alcohol is already messing with
> food prices.  That project is not even slightly small scale and it
> isn't coming close to supplanting other fuel sources. If it's pursued
> to the point where it does, we will be in the position of feeding the
> boilers with the ship's deck and planking to save on coal.  There's no
> mention of the energy audit -- units of energy resource invested to
> produce a unit of energy product.  I gather from (perhaps inadequate)
> reading that the audit for fuel alcohol from corn, taking into account
> the coal-generated electricity, diesel and gasoline, fertilizer
> manufacture etc. to plant, raise and process it, comes so close to
> breaking even that it's an even bet that it will run in the energy red
> in the long term, after the "externalized diseconomies" are
> recognized for what they are. And corn farming is sooo much easier and
> more developed tech than seaweed.
> 
> Another:
> 
>    Seaweed is one of the fastest growing plants in the
>    world; kelp, for example, grows up to 9-12 feet long in
>    a mere three months. This turbo-charged growth cycle
>    enables farmers to scale up their carbon sinks quickly.
>    Of course, the seaweed grown to mitigate emissions would
>    need to be harvested to produce carbon-neutral biofuels
>    to ensure that the carbon is not simply recycled back
>    into the air as it would be if the seaweed is eaten.
> 
> Um, say what?  If we eat the carbohydrates (and maybe a bit of
> protein) in seaweed, some goes into the sewer as solids and some into
> the air as exhaled CO2.  Right. But if we use it for fuel it just
> goes, well, *away*?  What?  If we burn it, *all* the carbon goes back
> into the air.
> 
>    The main nitrogen polluter is agricultural fertilizer
>    runoff. All told, the production of synthetic
>    fertilizers and pesticides contributes more than one
>    trillion pounds of greenhouse gas emissions to the
>    atmosphere globally each year. That's the same amount of
>    emissions that are generated by 88 million passenger
>    cars each year.
> 
>    Much of this nitrogen from fertilizers ends up in our
>    oceans, where nitrogen is now 50 percent above normal
>    levels. According to the journal Science, excess
>    nitrogen "depletes essential oxygen levels in the water
>    and has significant effects on climate, food production,
>    and ecosystems all over the world."
> 
> Eutrification due to fertilizer runoff has been a problem for fresh
> water lakes, especially smaller ones, for decades.  There's a lake
> near me where I used to swim in 1970 that is half its former size now.
> But that figure about the oceans is, IMHO, meaningless.  There may be
> significant nitrogenous pollution in parts of the ocean but even
> present agriculture hasn't made it uniform enough to make that 50%
> number tell me anything.  I suspect the author of having patched
> together notes about the ocean and about fresh water for the sake of
> rhetoric.
> 
>    Oysters to the rescue. One oyster filters 30-50 gallons
>    of water a day -- and in the process filters nitrogen
>    out of the water column. Recent work done by Roger
>    Newell of the University of Maryland shows that[13] a
>    healthy oyster habitat can reduce total added nitrogen
>    by up to 20 percent. A three-acre oyster farm filters
>    out the equivalent nitrogen load produced by 35 coastal
>    inhabitants[14].
> 
> Leaving aside, as we agreed, the misleading use of "nitrogen", 35
> coastal inhabitants don't produce that much nitrogenous effluent.
> Assuming a mix of processed and un- or poorly-processed sewage, we're
> talking about the amount of nitrogen, in the form mostly of fecal
> bacterial proteins or ammonia, in the protein eaten by 35 people.  The
> massive effluent nitrogen comes from the tonnage of 10-10-10 dumped
> onto 10s of thousand of acres of corn, soybean, sugarcane, wheat,
> barley and all the other megacrop varieties.  How many acres of oyster
> bed does it take to compensate for, say, 1000 acres of cornfield?  Can
> they do phosphorus, too?
> 
> Well, enough of addressing what "exactly is wrong with what was
> written."  In general, I think I have two thoughts:
> 
> + Anything in the way of aquaculture that actually works will quickly
>   be spun up into or taken over by giant agribusiness with the sort
>   of unhappy  results that the article quite rightly points to in
>   former corporate fish farming.
> 
> + Our overfishing and (probably) our pollution have already seriously
>   disturbed the marine biome. No cod for dinner or swordfish gets
>   expensive?  That's nothing beside the possible disruption of the
>   global marine ecosystem.  AFAIK, we (collectively) have only
>   hopeful surmises about the dynamics of the global marine biome.
>   As with complex systems in general, there exists the potential for
>   catastrophic change when enough variables and/or the right
>   variables exceed limits that we have no way assessing.
> 
> So good, lets do some small scale fish or seaweed farming farming.  I
> haul home something like 5 tons (wet weight) of seaweed every year.  I
> spread it on sod and plant potatoes under it but on top of the sod.
> The potatoes come up nearly clean (a little beach sand sometimes), the
> sod rots and, after using that patch for potatoes for 3 to 5 years, I
> till it and plant something else there.  Potatoes move to a new place.
> And some seaweed, a couple of truckloads, goes to mulch cabbages and
> tomatoes.  The seaweed contains negligible amounts of N-P-K but
> replenishes trace elements in our heavily leached soils.  Either the
> salt or the marine-type carbohydrates in the seaweed seems to deter
> creepy-crawlie herbivore pests that live happily under hay mulch.  And
> the accumulated seaweed, year after year, improves the tilth of the
> otherwise heavy soil.
> 
> All small scale.  It's a lot of work with a dung fork.  Good for the
> soil, local food production and all that.  If someone tries to
> commercialize this use of seaweed that I and some neighbors enjoy, it
> will suppress rather than support an environment-friendly practice.
> 
>> Okay Mike so you don't think too much of what was said or the guy
>> who said it.
> 
> I don't think anything I wrote was an ad hominem attack.  Don't know
> anything about him other than what he wrote.
> 
>> So, dropping the (Sci Guy) attitude(s)...
> 
> Gee, and I'm the guy who claimed to subscribe to Naive Realism with
> Sprinkles.  :-)
> 
> 
> Jeez, I thought Pete's bit got me off the hook for writing this.  Guess
> not.
> 
> - Mike
> 
> -- 
> Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada       .~. 
>                                                           /V\ 
> [email protected]                                     /( )\
> http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/                        ^^-^^
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