Darryl,
There's no need for gratuitous insults. Having been put by you into
the category of those of "limited spiritual intelligence" by you, I
guess I'm in the good company of the majority of Futurework listers
who may have visited conventional doctors many times but never once
to an acupuncturist.
Lawry's comment to my original posting of a year ago was fair
comment. Your last sentence wasn't and should have been scrubbed.
Keith
At 04:37 10/02/2012, you wrote:
Yes, Lawry,
I have read that acupuncture is over 5,000 years old as a medical
treatment. And at an early time in China's history laws were passed
wherein if a 'doctor' lost a patient to death and did not hang a red
lantern outside his door and a surviving relative noted same to the
local authority, said doctor was publicly beheaded.
However, that medical practice has had a hard sell in Britain.
Perhaps because it treats that which cannot be understood by most
'western' thought processes. The treatment of energies (vibrations
if you will) appears too difficult a concept for the limited
spiritual intelligence of most of the brainwashed western hemisphere.
D.
On 09/02/2012 5:41 PM, de Bivort Lawrence wrote:
Greetings, everyone,
I have a physician in NYC who I visit occassionally. He is both a
(western) MD and a doctor of Chinese medicine. He views them as
complementary: sometimes he uses the practices of one, and at other
times the practices of the other. This includes acupuncture,
acupressure. His wife is an herbal/Chinese doctor, and sometimes
some of that is used, as well.
Cheers,
Lawry
On Jan 9, 2011, at 10:56 PM, Keith Hudson wrote:
You're not seriously proposing acupuncture are you? Even the
Chinese scarcely use it as a practical system!
Acupuncture was a great discovery in that it indicated that there
are neuronal "gates" in our bodies which, if over-stimulated, can
block pain. (Scratching ourselves when we feel an itch is an
instinctive -- and effective -- use of this phenomenon.) It can
work, too, for some quite awe inspiring surgical operations in the
case of patients who believe deeply in it very deeply -- virtual
hypnosis. But if it's the "arrogance of our [the West's]
scientific society and the need for the present
medical/pharmaceutical businesses to maintain their grip on the
lucrative resource at hand" why didn't the Chinese use acupuncture
more widely long ago?
They didn't because acupuncture has only very limited uses.
Instead, the Chinese long ago used various natural products to
bring about anaesthesia for serious operations, just as monastic
hospitals did in Medieval Europe.
Keith
At 11:27 09/01/2011 -0800, Darryl wrote:
Add to the list below the study of the energy flows of the body
and acupuncture to treat dis-eases of the body (over 3500 years
of use). This style of medical intervention is still little
understood by the western world partly due to the arrogance of
our scientific society and the need for the present
medical/pharmaceutical businesses to maintain their grip on the
lucrative resource at hand. Let's mention as well the vast
knowledge of the ancient Chinese of the medicinals of the natural
world and the Chinese achievements in astronomy.
The struggle to 'achieve' in anything (sports, technocracy,
business/economics, government, etc.) can lead to a blind
arrogance toward other aspects within a field or society or
toward other cultures. It is this unacceptance of 'differing ways
and values' that can lead to misunderstandings, conflict and
disaster in the long run.
Darryl
On 1/8/2011 11:50 PM, Keith Hudson wrote:
Ed,
Yes . . . well I mentioned this in my piece. Over the centuries
the Chinese amassed a large number of inventions here and there
in a vast country which then drifted into Europe in the Middle
Ages. The real problem for China began at the time of the Ming
dynasty (early 1400s) when multi-masted ships (that is,
international trade) was outlawed. From then onwards they were
no longer receptive to catalytic ideas from the outside world.
It's economy was large enough (and its internal freight routes
were adequate enough -- principally its grand canal linking the
'export markets' of the north and south) for it to remain
viable, but it never made any great strides from then on. Its
culture and economy was largely locked and introverted.
The original problem (that the abstract scientific ideas of the
West from about 1700 onwards couldn't be immediately written
down in ideographic Chinese) doesn't apply any longer. (Now that
they've absorbed the ideas they can be written down in Chinese
-- albeit in railway length words!) The problem today (which, as
I said, the government is seriously worried about) is that their
children and young people are not curious or creative enough --
and they (not I) put it down to the many years of intensive rote
learning necessary to acquire reading and writing.
Keith
At 12:28 08/01/2011 -0500, you wrote:
Interesting Keith, but despite the problem of their written
language, the Chinese do seem to have been able to come up with
inventions in the past. I recalled reading something about
them having invented gunpowder, so I looked that up on
Wikipedia and to my surprise found that they had not only
invented gunpowder, but a host of other things:<?xml:namespace
prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China>China has been the source
of many significant
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention>inventions, including
the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Great_Inventions_of_ancient_China>Four
Great Inventions of ancient China:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papermaking>papermaking, the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass>compass,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder>gunpowder, and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_typography_in_East_Asia>printing
(both
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodblock_printing>woodblock and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movable_type>movable type). The
list below contains these and other inventions.
The <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people>Chinese
invented
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_China>technologies
involving <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanics>mechanics,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulics>hydraulics, and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics>mathematics applied
to
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horology>horology,<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy>metallurgy,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy>astronomy,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture>agriculture,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering>engineering,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_theory>music theory,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craftsmanship>craftsmanship,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_history>nautics, and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfare>warfare. By the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_Period>Warring
States Period (403221 BC), they had advanced metallurgic
technology, including the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_furnace>blast furnace and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupola_furnace>cupola furnace,
while the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finery_forge>finery
forge and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puddling_%28metallurgy%29>puddling
process were known by the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Dynasty>Han Dynasty(202 BC AD
220). A sophisticated economic system in <?xml:namespace prefix
= st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
/><?xml:namespace prefix = u1 />China gave birth to inventions
such as <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknote>paper money
during the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Dynasty>Song
Dynasty (9601279). The invention of gunpowder by the 10th
century led to an array of inventions such as the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance>fire lance, land mine,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine>naval mine,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_cannon>hand cannon,
exploding cannonballs, multistage
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket>rocket, and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huolongjing#Fire_arrows_and_rockets>rocket
bombs with aerodynamic wings and explosive payloads. With the
navigational aid of the 11th-century compass and ability to
steer at high sea with the 1st-century sternpost
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudder>rudder, premodern Chinese
sailors sailed as far as
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Africa>East Africa and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt>Egypt.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions#cite_note-0>[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions#cite_note-1>[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions#cite_note-2>[3]
In water-powered clockworks, the premodern Chinese had used the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escapement>escapement mechanism
since the 8th century and the endless power-transmitting
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_drive>chain drive in the
11th century. They also made large mechanical puppet theaters
driven by <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterwheel>waterwheels
and <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoke>carriage wheels and
wine-serving<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automaton>automatons
driven by <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_steamer>paddle
wheel boats. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions)
The quote mentions agriculture, but not the intensive
agriculture of the rice paddie. I recall reading somewhere
that rice paddies were partly a response to the need to feed vast armies.
Despite the problems raised by their written language, the
Chinese must have had some way of encapsulating their
inventions because they were quite widely used. And in the case
of Europe, it wasn't so much language that was essential to the
spread of ideas. Rather it was the invention of the printing
press and the movement away from Latin to the vernacular that
swept ideas across the continent.
If their written language presents a problem currently, there
is good reason to believe that the Chinese will have no problem
in adapting. A few days ago, I saw a TV interveiw with Justin
Yinfu Lin, Chief Economist of the World Bank. The interview
was in English, and Yinfu Lin's responses were in English, but
in an English so thick that I had a lot of trouble
understanding what he was saying. However, he knew exactly what he was saying.
My point is that if there is a problem, I'm sure that the
Chinese will find a way around it.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[email protected]>Keith Hudson
To: <mailto:[email protected]>RE-DESIGNING WORK,
INCOME DISTRIBUTION, ,EDUCATION
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:44 AM
Subject: [Futurework] Why China won't win in this century
The reason why China will never win hands-down in its current
economic war with America is the same as why Japan didn't
succeed in the 1980s when all were expecting that its
corporations and banks would eat America up (Americans
included). The reason is that both countries are good at
copying ideas and technologies; neither is good at inventing new ones.
It's their written language that's the main part of their
problem. It's non-phonetic. It means that in order to acquire
a basic vocabulary -- of, say, 2,000 or 3,000 words (the
content of their average newspapers) -- children have to learn
uniquely-shaped characters (whole words) which have no, or
very little, relationship with their utterance. A Chinese or
Japanese child can learn to speak his language quite as
readily as children do the world over, but learning how to
read or write each individual word takes many years. And
there's only one way, unfortunately for children, and that's
by rote learning. And thousands of hours of rote learning over
many years under the strict discipline of slave-masters in
the schoolroom doesn't do anything for the creativity of young
minds -- or for older minds for that matter because the basic
mental skills are aptitudes are thoroughly laid down before puberty.
The Chinese and Japanese governments are well aware of the
damage that rote learning is doing to them -- and say so quite
frequently. Although both countries can churn out ten of
thousands of science and engineering graduates every year,
there's scarcely an independent mind among them. Independent
'garage inventors', as we have in the West, are as rare as
hen's teeth in China and Japan. For example, Japan has been
industrialized for over a century -- only a decade or two less
than other Western countries -- yet it has only won 15 Nobel
prizes in the science subjects. Compare this figure with those
of America (261), the UK (91) and Germany (88). China has only
won 10! However, this comparison is unfair because China's
have only been won since it woke up in the 1970s. America's
number also needs to be modified because about a third of its
prizes have been won by foreign-born scientists who became
American citizens after migrating there.
It's all Emperor Qin Shi Huang's fault (yes, the same as is
famed for his terracotta army). Once Qin had conquered several
countries and unified China in 221BC, he standardized as many
things as possible from weights and measures and currency
through to the written language. All the various scholars
throughout his empire, speaking scores of different languages
(some with and some without a written form) were forced -- on
pain of death -- to produce a composite, but common, written
language. And this could only be non-phonetic, of course. Even
the mighty power of Emperor Qin couldn't force millions of his
subjects to learn a new common spoken language but he could
certainly force his relatively few scholars to produce a new
common written one. One popular penalty in those days was to
cut someone through his midriff, mount him on a platter of hot
tar and take him around the town, gesticulating and shouting before he expired.
And herein lies a paradox, because the industrial revolution
in Europe would never have happened without starting from a
basic stock of scores of innovations -- such as canal locks,
differential gears, sowing grain in rows and so forth -- that
had drifted in from China along the Great Silk Road over a
period of centuries. However, this doesn't signify that the
Chinese had been more inventive than Europeans. But its common
written language had meant that when one innovation -- say a
wheelbarrow (very important indeed for both China and Europe)
-- had been invented by a genius in one tucked-away corner of
China, then the local mandarin could write and tell hundreds
more all about this wonderful new device.
But what once had been an accelerator for both Chinese and
European civilizations actually became a retardant for China
when the Western Enlightenment and scientific revolution
stirred into life in the 1600s and 1700s. The Chinese had no
way of encapsulating these new ideas. A Chinese mandarin
visiting Europe in, say, the 1700s or 1800s, and learning
about the new exciting scientific ideas (if he'd learned Latin
or another European language of course) had no way of
disseminating them widely in China because there he had no
method of writing them down in Chinese words that would have
been instantly recognizable by fellow Chinese scholars or
engineers. He could only convey the new ideas vaguely by
speaking of them face-to-face when he returned home.
Thus Japan (which had inherited thousands of Chinese words)
and China were left behind by the industrial revolution in
England, Germany and America. They didn't begin to catch up in
earnest until the the 1870s (the Meiji Revolution) and the
1970s (the Deng Xiaoping Revolution) respectively. And this is
still -- largely -- where they are today. Both the Chinese and
Japanese governments are trying to phoneticize their written
languages but only very slowly, such is the cultural
conservatism of two thousands years to contend with.
What might be significant in China (though not yet happening
in Japan), is that all their college and university entrants
have to learn spoken and written English these days. All their
top government officials speak English and most business and
science faculties in their universities use English widely in
their seminars. Also, thousands of their brightest young
post-grad scientists go to America or England for research
experience and qualifications. Indeed, once they are here for
a few years they become quite as inventive as Western
scientists (if not more so when you look at the authorship of
many papers in heavyweight subject, say genetics or particle
physics). Unfortunately for the Chinese and Japanese
governments many, if not most, of the most innovative
scientific minds elect to stay in their adoptive countries
rather than to return.
But the problem is even more serious for China and Japan.
Almost as important as are the original ideas of innovative
individuals is the necessity of other individuals who will
give a welcome to new ideas and help to develop them. And it's
this open-minded hinterland which is still limited because of
their deep, conservative, authoritative cultures. Goodness
knows, new ideas often have a hard time being accepted in the
West. Even here, the crazy ideas of yesteryear sometimes have
to wait until its die-hard opponents are dead and buried and a
brand new generation appears. Only then are the ideas seen to
be not so crazy after all.
There we are then. Japan came close to hollowing out America
and Western Europe 30 years ago with its superbly made
(Western-invented) products. China is threatening to do the
same in the coming years. But the innovative momentum is still
with the West and this sort of cultural momentum takes a
century or two to die down -- if it ever does -- or a century
to acquire -- if it ever does in China and Japan.
Keith
Keith Hudson, Saltford, England
http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/01/
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