An example
to a further degree
why forestry
should be curtailed
here in BC
D.
On 12/05/2012 6:46 AM, Arthur Cordell wrote:
Perhaps tourism reflects a desire to escape if only for a moment the
known dark-side of our own societies, to bathe superficially in the
delights of foreign societies, unscathed by the hidden realities of
/their/ dark-sides.
=============
Agree. Tourism as consumption activity. A form of entertainment,
escapism.
arthur
*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *de
Bivort Lawrence
*Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:44 AM
*To:* RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION
*Subject:* Re: [Futurework] The ONLY solution
Some of the affection we North Americans readily feel for Europe --
its 'quaint' villages; the corner grocer and baker; and age-old
churches; the mossy street-edges; the perfect meadows; sweet-smelling
hay and straw barns; the morning washing of the side-walks; the
one-step-down restaurants with their old wood beams and zinc bars; the
'gruss gott' and 'bonjour, madame' among strangers; the manicured
trails inter-lacing the alps; wild strawberries in the woods; the
cheeses; the family-style back-street museums of the towns -- is made
possible by a social system that lies hidden to tourists' eyes and
that North Americans seem to shy away from when they run into its
echoes here in America.
This social system is founded upon a close-knit social unit -- the
village or, in towns, the neighborhood.
To Americans, this social system or what they see and experience of it
seems nosy, controlling, rigid, exclusive of strangers,
tradition-bound, conformist, deeply conservative, arrogantly
self-confidant, and suspicious. What we Americans don't quite see,
either, is how alienated are some of the youth growing up in such
rigid social environments, and how some dream from an early age of
escaping, typically to the nearest large town, where they can find
some degree of liberty through anonymity and experiment-friendly
social sub-groups of peers and happenstance mentors.
This dream of escape is fueled by knowledge of the rest of the world
and of how others live, a dream accelerated to them in recent decades
by television and the distribution of foreign movies down into the
smallest villages, and by tourists who unthinkingly carry with them
the societal 'virus' of the social mores of America, mores based on
notions of the primacy of the individual; the dispensability of
enduring social ties and respect for elders; and the intrinsic value
of innovation and spontaneity.
And, sometimes in turn, these mores spawn societal consequences that
can horrify Europeans when they visit American lands where these mores
developed and flourished: garbage strewn streets; noisy and
disrespectful gangs of children in the malls; the all-consuming
consumerism and materialism; the thin veneer of classical education;
linguistic incompetence; a propensity for violence; the substitution
of 'style' for art; the substitution of self-promotion for a good
reputation earned over the years through solid accomplishment and
reliability; and a willingness to screw others and, if caught, move on
anonymously.
Perhaps tourism reflects a desire to escape if only for a moment the
known dark-side of our own societies, to bathe superficially in the
delights of foreign societies, unscathed by the hidden realities of
/their/ dark-sides.
Cheers,
Lawry
On May 12, 2012, at 2:13 AM, pete wrote:
On Fri, 11 May 2012, Ray Harrell wrote:
The old Cherokee Nation was the size of the modern state of Oklahoma
and Oklahoma is the size of modern France.
No, it's not. We did this before, just a little while ago:
"No no, it is Texas that's the size of France, Oklahoma is a quarter
that size, and fits between Greece and Belarus, but with a population of
order of a small balkan state."
And while Germany is indeed about twice the size of Wisconsin, it is
also about 6% smaller than Montana, its closest US match, and thus about
half the size of France, as Monana is half the size of Texas.
-Pete (compulsive geography geek)
PS By the way, did you get a view of the land while flying over? What
I've noticed is that the small villages and small farms make a beautiful
environment, by comparison with the vast and for me rather desolate
stretches of unpopulated farmland in north america, dominated by the
impersonal geometry of the "section" - square mile divisions of farm
properties. The little scattered villages and irreguilar farm boundaries
of Europe look far more friendly, I don't think I'd mind living anywhere
among them...
Thanks Keith. I always enjoy your thinking although I often don't agree.
The root of the disagreement could be about geography. This
summer I took
my first trip to Europe ever. I always had an image of Europe as
a place
consonant with its Art and the impact of its Art on the rest of
the world.
Just as the first Americans to go to China with Nixon and to find
the sheer
stunning numbers of people overwhelming or my experience of moving
to NYCity
and finding the weight of the buildings, their size and immense
number to be
beyond my experience, the trip to Europe was different.
I was struck by the smallness and local feeling of all of Europe.
The
low buildings, small transportation systems and of course the
great beauty.
Yes the Art is there and it is unbelievable in its sheer amounts
and scope.
There are big airports but basically I was struck by important
cities with
airports not much bigger than Oklahoma City except Oklahoma City then
spreads over 100 miles of prairie from the airport. The airport at
Florence was like a mid size American city airport. The road
systems run
through beautiful countrysides but essentially everything is in
miniature.
The old Cherokee Nation was the size of the modern state of
Oklahoma and
Oklahoma is the size of modern France. Germany is the size of two
Wisconsins and Britain is....... well..... an island after all is
said and
done.
In the countries where miniature geography houses large mono racial
populations and serious modern economies it makes sense that
evolution would
begin to downsize due to the sheer minimalism of the gene pool.
Multi-culturalism is a threat to their personal gene pool and
identity.
Some of these groups struggle to maintain their identity through inner
marriage in the culture but these same cultures maintaining their
identity
here, suffer from serious health issues as they do elsewhere in
the world
and the problem is old blood. I suspect that all of the new Muslim
immigrants in Europe is a genetic cry for fresh blood just as the
American
Indian Nations here used to raid their neighbors for wives and
children to
keep the gene pool, within the clan systems, viable. I know that
Europeans who immigrate here often speak of the liberty of
anonymity because
of the sheer space. I've heard the same from immigrants to Canada.
They love the Art and the look of their home culture but when they
buy a
house there they suffer from a personal kind of claustrophobia and
a loss of
identity which the crystallize in the word "liberty."
REH
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith
Hudson
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 3:09 AM
To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, , EDUCATION
Subject: [Futurework] The ONLY solution
Never before -- in the 200,000 year history of mankind -- have
populations
decided to go extinct. But that is exactly what might happen in
more than a
score of advanced countries in Europe. By deciding to spend their
incomes on
the full standard kit of consumer goods, services and leisure
experiences
rather than two (increasingly expensive) children per woman,
populations
will go into steep decline once the present crop of excessively
old people
dies off.
Whether European countries will completely re-stock their numbers
in the
years to come by continuing to encourage the poor of Asia, Africa
and the
Middle East to immigrate remains to be seen. For the last 30 or 40
years,
this has been the surreptitious policy of senior politicians and civil
servants in order to maintain a sufficiently large taxation base. But
whether they'll continue to get away with it remains to be seen.
Even while
indigenous populations are declining, they may also decide to
elect extreme
right-wing governments or even old-fashioned dictatorships which will
finally erect efficient barriers. If this happens, then, at some
future
stage, European adults might decide to have more children and thus
stabilize
their populations (albeit at much smaller numbers than today).
Stabilization of populations would only occur, however, when the
twin trends
of ever-increasing automation and ever-increasing growth of
specialized
skills balance up. That is, when the size of the consumer market
matches up
with the necessary jobs which provide the market with desirable
goods and
services, and maintain the basic infrastructure. This is the natural
equilibrium of what has occurred during, say, 190,000 years of our
existence. During the most recent 10,000 years of our agricultural and
industrial eras, this self-balancing act has only been interrupted
for brief
periods by mass warfare.
Sooner or later, the poor of mankind -- such as they might exist
-- will
begin to reach a European standard of living and go through the same
balancing process as we are now starting. Of course, the whole of
mankind
might be wiped out by an unforeseen asteroid or a killer virus
that will
have such a long gestation period that it will be undetectable
even as it
spreads around. But, unlike Martin Rees, Astronomer Royal, Master
of Trinity
College Cambridge and past President of the Royal Society, who
doesn't give
us more than a century's future existence, I remain optimistic. I
believe we
have at least a few centuries yet until we reach the only possible
solution.
Keith
Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com
<http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/>
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