The advantage of separate currencies for different states is that when a state begins to play fast and loose with its economy, the currency begins to weaken. This is an obvious reminder to change its ways.
The "Greek Euro" could not be allowed to weaken in response to the Grecian antics so the present problems mounted. The desperate efforts to save the Euro are likely to bring down the stronger states - if they don't cast loose and return to their individual currencies - or chuck Greece out of the Euro (a temporary measure). Or, they could become a United States of Europe - an unlikely venture. Harry -------------------------- On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 8:28 AM, de Bivort Lawrence <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *de Bivort Lawrence <[email protected]> > *Date: *June 4, 2012 11:27:47 AM EDT > *To: *[email protected] > *Subject: **Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] A little more on the Euro* > > Thanks, Ed, > > I understand the interconnected nature of the financial industry. In part, > if I am not mistaken, it is a result of individual financial institutions > wanting to lay off risk by selling debts to others (and sometimes > misrepresenting the value of those debts to the buyer). The > interconnectedness is, as I understand it, a matter of financial strategy > and choice. > > So let's say that the general consequence, from your note, of a borrowing > country defaulting is that other potential lenders will not want to lend to > the defaulter. You ask what this might mean to the peace, stability and > living standards of the defaulter. I would guess that the stability and > living standards would suffer. I doubt that "peace" would be affected, but > I may be misunderstanding what you mean by this term. > > So with regard to the stability and living standards of the defaulter, > which -- yes -- would suffer int he case of a default, I'll ask another > naive question: so what? I have a friend who once cheerfully told me that > she had considerable personal savings. Later, she disclosed that she also > had considerable debt, which exceeded her "savings." And yes, her standard > of living dropped for a while as she both used those savings and a larger > portion of her income to rid herself of those debts. The key point is that > while she rejoiced in the size of her savings, it was a deluded joy: in > fact she had few net assets. She could have kept on running up debt, and > enjoyed a delusional higher standard of living, but this only exacerbated > her situation, given her need to service her debt. > > Is it not the same with Greece? If the Greek people, collectively, have > been living beyond their means, is this not a delusional financial stance? > Does enjoying a higher stander of living temporarily outweigh in terms of > social values the accumulation of greater and greater debt and its > concurrent service obligations? My friend did not expect anyone to take > pity on her; she simply knuckled down and accepted the temporary > diminishment of her standard of living. Why not Greece? > > Cheers, > Lawry > > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Ed Weick wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ed Weick <[email protected]> > *To:* RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME > DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION<[email protected]> > *Sent:* Sunday, June 03, 2012 10:38 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] A little more on the Euro > > A couple of points, Lawry. One is that the banking system is highly > connected internationally. To lend money to the Greek or Spanish > governments, Greek or Spanish banks borrowed money from banks in other > countries. The impact would likely be similar to that of the > American sub-prime mortgage crisis of some four years ago. Via the widely > traded Consolidated Debt Obligations it was not only American banks that > lost a lot of money, but foreign banks as well. I think defaults by the > highly leveraged members of the EU would have a much larger negative impact > than the sub-prime crisis. > > The other point is that the EU governments of Greece, Italy, Spain, > Ireland and perhaps others (France?) have kept themselves going by > borrowing huge sums of money. If they defaulted, it is unlikely that > anyone would want to lend to them. What might that mean in terms peace, > stability and living standards in those countries? > > Ed > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* de Bivort Lawrence <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME > DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION'<[email protected]> > *Sent:* Sunday, June 03, 2012 10:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] A little more on the Euro > > A simplistic question, but one that may, I hope, cut to the chase: > > What is the problem if Greece and perhaps Italy and Spain simply default > on their debts, and do nothing else? I can readily see that lenders would > subsequently shy away from making any new loans to those countries, of > course, but...so what? > > Can we build a damage/risk tree out from this initial question? > > Cheers, > Lawry > > > > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Ed Weick wrote: > > > > There seemed to be some agreement yesterday that exit from the EU by > Greece and perhaps others like Spain and Italy was inevitable. But is it > really? Greece, Spain and a few other countries have huge debts -- but > debts that are denominated in Euros. It is highly unlikely that creditors > would accept repayment in far less stable currencies like the drachma or > the peseta, and default by some of the larger EU debtors could wreak havoc > with the international banking system. Exit from the EU is, IMHO, most > unlikely unless someone steps in and provides the kind of bailout supports > needed. Perhaps the IMF or, as Barry suggested, Russia? For a countries > like Greece or Spain, would being beholden to Russia be better than being > under Germany's thumb? > > Ed > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > __._,_.___ > Reply to > sender<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5BFuturework%5D%20%5BOttawadissenters%5D%20A%20little%20more%20on%20the%20Euro>| > Reply > to > group<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5BFuturework%5D%20%5BOttawadissenters%5D%20A%20little%20more%20on%20the%20Euro>| > Reply > via web > post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ottawadissenters/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYjE1MDdnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjA5MDU5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzUxMgRtc2dJZAMxODgzNwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMzg3MzQ1MjI-?act=reply&messageNum=18837>| > Start > a New > Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ottawadissenters/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOGE3bDIyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjA5MDU5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzUxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMzg3MzQ1MjI-> > Messages in this > topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ottawadissenters/message/18837;_ylc=X3oDMTM3bGgwaXN2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjA5MDU5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzUxMgRtc2dJZAMxODgzNwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMzg3MzQ1MjIEdHBjSWQDMTg4Mzc->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > > Visit Your > Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ottawadissenters;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbzRva3Q5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjA5MDU5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzUxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzMzg3MzQ1MjI-> > [image: Yahoo! > Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJldGg2cTMyBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE1MjA5MDU5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzUxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMzODczNDUyMg--> > Switch to: > Text-Only<[email protected]?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>, > Daily > Digest<[email protected]?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest>• > Unsubscribe<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>• > Terms > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > . > > __,_._,___ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > >
_______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
