. Sometimes the hourglass needs to be turned over.
Excellent one liner. arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Harrell Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 4:03 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] A little more on the Euro You could also take over the banks and develop them as businesses for the whole people rather than a few shareholders. Sometimes the hourglass needs to be turned over. Sometimes its public and sometimes its private. The same is true in the U.S. for federal vs. state control of certain things. There are several institutions here that have a public/private competitive aspect that keeps both honest and sometimes it's just a change of inmates and the guards. The ladder of historical evolution is really a mobius strip. REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 10:12 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] A little more on the Euro Yup, you could do all kinds of things as long as the economy is healthy and the banking system is stable. But sometimes the banks get into serious trouble, as in the case of the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008. Governments may then have to initiate costly programs like the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP), which is what the US felt it had to do. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Harrell <mailto:[email protected]> To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION' <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] A little more on the Euro You could charge the banks for services to the economy. Not just taxes but tolls and as they charge Indian casinos here for state police, they could charge the banks for protections against crime. They could also forbid banks from hiring their own police. There are all kinds of ways that banks and corporations that take advantage of national services and then become loyal only to shareholders could be charged for services. Is that a beehive that the banks really want to anger? Banks don't have armies, nations do, even Greece. WWIII or just more fun with guns and bombs? REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 10:38 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] A little more on the Euro A couple of points, Lawry. One is that the banking system is highly connected internationally. To lend money to the Greek or Spanish governments, Greek or Spanish banks borrowed money from banks in other countries. The impact would likely be similar to that of the American sub-prime mortgage crisis of some four years ago. Via the widely traded Consolidated Debt Obligations it was not only American banks that lost a lot of money, but foreign banks as well. I think defaults by the highly leveraged members of the EU would have a much larger negative impact than the sub-prime crisis. The other point is that the EU governments of Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland and perhaps others (France?) have kept themselves going by borrowing huge sums of money. If they defaulted, it is unlikely that anyone would want to lend to them. What might that mean in terms peace, stability and living standards in those countries? Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: de Bivort Lawrence <mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION' <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] A little more on the Euro A simplistic question, but one that may, I hope, cut to the chase: What is the problem if Greece and perhaps Italy and Spain simply default on their debts, and do nothing else? I can readily see that lenders would subsequently shy away from making any new loans to those countries, of course, but...so what? Can we build a damage/risk tree out from this initial question? Cheers, Lawry On Jun 3, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Ed Weick wrote: There seemed to be some agreement yesterday that exit from the EU by Greece and perhaps others like Spain and Italy was inevitable. But is it really? Greece, Spain and a few other countries have huge debts -- but debts that are denominated in Euros. It is highly unlikely that creditors would accept repayment in far less stable currencies like the drachma or the peseta, and default by some of the larger EU debtors could wreak havoc with the international banking system. Exit from the EU is, IMHO, most unlikely unless someone steps in and provides the kind of bailout supports needed. Perhaps the IMF or, as Barry suggested, Russia? For a countries like Greece or Spain, would being beholden to Russia be better than being under Germany's thumb? 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