Keith that is precisely why voting on public matters should be a vote by the public. If there is not a clear majority that have voted, the item must be brought back to the table and information given out, then resubmitted for another vote - to the public.

Your comment would be much the same for Canada - grad's from poli-sci, law and /maybe/ from some economics area although a few are involved with some corporate endeavour that may or may not have been a "family business" - like shipping. Government is a place for the "elite" and they are now using their position to maintain their position (so to speak).

But, again, that is only a "symptom" of a much deeper problem - from the values of the individual which then accumulates to a major problem within the society as a whole. We cannot, as the medical system is wont to do, treat the symptoms and expect to change the political scene. It is the values that the children are learning that is creating the problems. These are then acted upon in their adult lives.

Darryl


On 25/07/2012 11:53 PM, Keith Hudson wrote:
Ed,

Two other points about the present political system that might be mentioned is that: (a) the active membership of local political parties is only a small fraction (10%?) of what they used to be 50/100 years ago; (b) politicians have become less and less representative of the real economic world around them. A significant, and rising, proportion of our new MPs are individuals who've graduated with non-scientific or non-technical degrees and have spent their time as "research assistant" interns within Westminster without ever having experience as an employer or employee in the world that actually generates the money that pays for their keep.

Keith

At 13:51 25/07/2012, you wrote:
In some agreement with Keith, I don't see the increase of opportunities for the young as being a matter of political ideology or politics or even a matter of what the modern human sciences are telling us. The thing that has generated opportunities that enable young people to get ahead and transcend the barriers that prevented their parents from doing so are massive changes in the socio-economic world. I was a depression baby, born in western Canada to immigrant parents in the early 1930's. I remember adults talking about how gloomy things were. One of my cousins, ten years older than me, wanted to go to university or at least get some form of higher education. He was told to forget about it, that's for rich kids.

Then came the war and the postwar years. There was an explosion of opportunities, even a kid like me, born poor and without much hope, wound up at university with ever so many kids from similar backgrounds. My major regret at the time was that the wide open world I was now in came at the cost of the lives of some six million Jews and millions of other people. There is another, a more pervasive regret that has dogged me and I'm sure many other depression babies. The fact that my earliest growing up took place in a word of almost zero hope has made me a rather gloomy person -- expect the worst; there is no best.

I would disagree with Keith on his view that the plight of the African child in the diamond or gold mine is a product of bad luck. I'd argue that his or her plight is a product of centuries of colonialism and capitalist repression which at some point has to be, and hopefully will, be swept into the dust bin of history, though right now I can't say how that might happen. I would, however, totally agree that political parties, whether right or left wing, will have very little to with it. I see political parties as corporate entities looking after their own interests and not those of the public, though there are large exceptions. It will likely take some major conflagration, a major war perhaps, to enable the African child to walk out of the gold or diamond mine, get an education, and become something other than a socio-political causality. If we can do it, he or she can do it, though I have to admit it will be much harder for them.

Ed

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Keith Hudson <mailto:[email protected]>
    To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, ,EDUCATION
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:22 PM
    Subject: [Futurework] A Plague on Both Houses

    The rapidly accumulating evidence of the modern human sciences is
    now telling us with increasing clarity that the fundamental
    assumptions of both left- and right-politics are fallacious. Even
    the wonders of a "mixed economy" or a "third way" -- as
    individually promoted by both Labour and Conservative prime
    ministers in this country in the last 20 years -- have proved to
    be risible. Differences of poverty, opportunity and political
    power remain much the same as always in any advanced country
    whatever type of government, sometimes slightly reducing when
    great effort and spending is made under a socialist government,
    more usually expanding when eyes are taken off the ball in
    so-called free-enterprise government..

    The whole debate can be reduced to a simple example in which the
    observations, large-scale surveys and lab researches of
    educationalists, psychologists, anthropologists, neuroscientists,
    geneticists and evolutionary biologists are all in almost total
    agreement. It is that, at the time of puberty, the adolescent is
    the recipient of his or her personality and potential skills. He
    or she is hardly at all the creator of those specifications. The
    individual has had very little to do with laying down those
    specifications nor, apart from luck, the way that those
    specifications subsequently play themselves out and largely
    determine the experiences and happiness in the remainder of his
    or her lifetime.

    Excluding the luck of a lottery draw or inheriting a million from
    an unknown relative, there are three main lucks in life. They're
    all interlinked but are sufficiently different in their effects
    that they can be discussed separately. The first is the
    emotional, informational and cultural environments mainly
    imparted by parents but also influenced by school-teachers in the
    early years of childhood. By the age of puberty, any social or
    intellectual skills not laid down by then will never be fully
    recoverable in later life, no matter how hard one tries.

    The second luck is the nature and abilities of one's post-puberty
    peer group to whom the individual now devotes much more attention
    as, together, they approach adulthood. It is in this period that
    the individual can now develop and enhance the comparative
    advantage of his or her best skills, testing them against others
    in the peer group and finding a role within it. As the prospect
    of adult life draws closer, friends made in this period are
    usually friends for life.

    The third luck is the nature and abilities of, usually, just one
    or two patrons (often one's parents) who have a sufficient span
    of like social contacts which enable a young adult to finally
    find an initial lodgement in an adult group which, to a greater
    or lesser extent, is normally protective of entry by any young
    hopeful. This third luck also includes the size of the income
    made available in a particular group, or the intrinsic interest
    of a job, and also whether that particular specialization
    continues to be favoured by the changing economic environment.

    To summarize:

    1. Unless a socialist government interferes in the intimate
    family life of every child from his or her earliest months and
    years in the hope of equalizing opportunities then inequalities
    of personalities and abilities are broadly set by the age of
    puberty. No amount of good intent by governments can change this.

    2. A right-wing government cannot make claims of virtue for its
    apparent heroes.  Those individuals are the product of good luck
    just as an African child working and dying in a diamond or gold
    mine is the product of bad luck.

    Politics is already in a bad way. It's not likely to get any
    better in the coming years as we try to work off the immense
    private, corporate and governmental debts that the policies of
    both left-wing and right-wing governments have lumbered us with.
    The modern human sciences are telling us quite radical things
    about what we really are like. The new politics will probably be
    concerned with how power can be confined within groups -- where
    it is more accessible to be pulled down if necessary -- rather
    than between groups as now.  I can take this no further. For now,
    until the findings of the human sciences spread around for a
    generation or two, I would join the refrain of an increasing
    number of the young. It's not very constructive, I'm afraid: A
    Plague on Both Houses!

    Keith

    Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com
    <http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/>


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Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com
<http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/>


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