Ed,
Maybe I was nitpicking too much. I normally have quite a lot of time
for Jeremy Rifkin. He was one of the few who had anything sensible to
say at around the time when FW started.
Keith
At 14:57 30/08/2012, Ed wrote:
Keith, you're right about how long carbon based fuels have been
used. Early agricultural villages used wood and coal for heat, for
cooking food and for purposes such as operating forges. But what
Rifkin appears to be arguing is that the massive industrial use of
carbon fuels has had very large impact on the hierarchical structure
of society. He who provides the carbon or aids and abets its
provision not only sits on top of the pile but decides who else
might sit up there with him -- ie. determines the nature and
composition of your 20 class.
I'm not sure that Rifkin said that the fuels that support the carbon
based economy would run out in 30 years, but he did imply that the
end would come relatively quickly. However, his message was
essentially one of hope, of arguing that if we play things right and
firmly established green energy systems we wouldn't have to worry
about the demise of the carbon economy whenever it comes. Playing
things right is where I have a problem with Rifkin. Some parts of
the world may be able to play things right, but I doubt that much of
the world will be able to do so.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[email protected]>Keith Hudson
To: <mailto:[email protected]>RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME
DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION ; <mailto:[email protected]>Ed Weick
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] The future according to Rifkin
Jeremy Rifkin is right, overall, when he says that the present
industrial-consumerist era is coming to an end. He's wrong to say
that it's anything to do with a carbon economy. In the
post-hunter-gatherer era, trees have been burned for fuel and coal
outcrops and oil seepages were exploited wherever found. Even
natural gas was used for street lighting in China at around 200BC.
He's wrong about the 30-year supply of oil. There's at least 100
years of this left, plus the natural gas associated with it. Also,
fracked gas and methane clathrates will last for centuries yet,
particularly if city-bound excess populations of the undeveloped
world follow the steeply declining fertility trends of the advanced
countries. The last two sources will produce energy with only about
half the residual CO2 as present energy-production methods.
Jeremy Rifkin is quite right about the power-groups at the top
(which I call the 20-class). But man, like all social mammals, has
always tended to stratify. Once a new species comes into existence,
stratification is absolutely necessary to maintain quality control
and to fit the species evermore efficiently into the environment
around it. Be it ever so weakly expressed in some cultures, females
always tend to partner themselves upwards in order to leave
handicapped and inept males behind without issue. The only
difference between today and, say, 300 years ago when the
industrial-consumerist revolution was just getting started, is that
we now have more different types of power-groups than before.
Keith
At 19:04 29/08/2012, Ed wrote:
Jeremy Rifkin was the guest on TVO's Agenda during the past two
nights. His ideas flowed out like tidal waves so I can't remember
everything he said, but his central idea seemed to be that the past
200 years shouldn't be thought of in terms of being market or
ideologically driven but in terms of being driven by the discovery
and availability of carbon - ie. coal, oil and natural gas. A
carbon based economy, he argued, leads to "vertical" economic and
social organization of the kind we've had for the past two or three
centuries. The carbon that fuels the economy is something somebody
gets for us and controls us with. Hence it puts some groups at the
top of the heap and makes everyone else subservient to them in a
highly stratified and multi-specialized system.
Ah, he then said, but the carbon economy has to come to an end, and
in Rifkin's opinion it will end very soon. A carbon based economy
can't last more than another 30 years or so. What then? I didn't
quite fully grasp what he was saying, but it was something like
vast horizontally organized networks based on green energy with
everybody pitching in and everybody benefiting would come into
being. It all sounded very beautiful though somewhat idealistic if
one considers continued rapid population growth, diminishing
agricultural potential, the growth of cities and global warming.
However, it was interesting. If you want to hear what he said
yourselves, go to the TVO/Agenda website and take a look and listen.
Ed
P.S.: Chris Hedges, co-author of "Days of Destruction, Days of
Revolt" is on the Agenda tonight. I've read the book, and it's not
an uplifting happiness pill.
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Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com
Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com
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