Happy New Year Lawry. How's married life?
REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of de Bivort Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 11:14 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] Nobel Prize -- was Re: [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... Happy new year, everyone! Lawry On Jan 1, 2013, at 10:20 PM, Ray Harrell wrote: you scratch my ____ I'll........... From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:54 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Nobel Prize -- was Re: [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... Arthur, when are you going to nominate me for the Nobel Prize? Keith ============ Keith your very presence on this list is a prize for all of us who take the time to read and think about your postings. Arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith Hudson Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:54 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: [Futurework] Nobel Prize -- was Re: [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... At 03:27 30/12/2012, AC wrote: Krugman's Nobel was in a very conventional aspect of economic theory. He made certain breakthroughs. Don't know whether that makes him qualified to comment on this and that. The NY Times likes him. And that apparently is good enough. See below http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economics/laureates/2008/press.html Patterns of trade and location have always been key issues in the economic debate. What are the effects of free trade and globalization? What are the driving forces behind worldwide urbanization? Paul Krugman has formulated a new theory to answer these questions. He has thereby integrated the previously disparate research fields of international trade and economic geography. (KH) As far as I can see (below) Krugman's approach supplies nothing new -- bog standard economic history. Everything he describes is after the event -- after the fact of urban centres. Why did they occur? Where did they occur? When did they occur? He doesn't seem to answer those. Well, I'll tell you. Almost all major conurbations lie at what were previously major ports (even if they're not so busy today), The remainder are on rivers. In times past they all had many manufacturing areas and developed major warehousing (for stuff made in the interior of the country) and financial sectors. (Clerks alone were many thousands strong in all large trading port-cities. Until WW2 every Bill of Sale needed to be hand-written three times [there was no other adequate copying method]. One copy went to the merchant's own bank [wherever it was in the world], another copy went to the counterparty's bank [wherever that was], and the last copy went to a merchant bank in the City of London which acted as an honest broker between the two parties (who might be on opposite sides of the earth and, if it's a first contract between them, couldn't trust one another). Take this cluster of major trading ports back to the late middle ages -- the 17th century, say. There was no globalized trading system. There were four smaller ones. 1. The low European countries and the Mediterranean; 2. The Mediterranean based on Venice-Florence-Genoa 3. The Arab based on the Red Sea; 4. The Indian based on the Indian Ocean; 5. The Chinese based on South-East Asia and islands. The merchant adventurers of the last three systems had lateen (steerable) sails on their boats and could tack against the wind if necessary and cross oceans. 3 and 4 were not ready culturally. Chinese merchants, already too rich for the Emperor's liking, were forbidden to use their lateen sails. However, when Vasco da Gama and Christopher Columbus decided to use lateen sails in order to cross oceans, they opened the whole world and spelled the end of the five previous systems. The ports that these sailing ships chose had to be able to offer safe water to, usually thousands of boats of all nationalities and sometimes for weeks if storms raged. This further consolidated them as cosmopolitan cities where many languages were spoken. Most of them in Europe became free cities or city-states -- far more powerful, financially and militarily than the country around them. The above, then, are the true beginnings of the globalized trade system we have today. As we have more and more automation and as factories can become smaller and smaller, the bulk of tomorrow's manufacturing will also take place in the megacities. Arthur, when are you going to nominate me for the Nobel Prize? Keith Krugman's approach is based on the premise that many goods and services can be produced more cheaply in long series, a concept generally known as economies of scale. Meanwhile, consumers demand a varied supply of goods. As a result, small-scale production for a local market is replaced by large-scale production for the world market, where firms with similar products compete with one another. Traditional trade theory assumes that countries are different and explains why some countries export agricultural products whereas others export industrial goods. The new theory clarifies why worldwide trade is in fact dominated by countries which not only have similar conditions, but also trade in similar products - for instance, a country such as Sweden that both exports and imports cars. This kind of trade enables specialization and large-scale production, which result in lower prices and a greater diversity of commodities. Economies of scale combined with reduced transport costs also help to explain why an increasingly larger share of the world population lives in cities and why similar economic activities are concentrated in the same locations. Lower transport costs can trigger a self-reinforcing process whereby a growing metropolitan population gives rise to increased large-scale production, higher real wages and a more diversified supply of goods. This, in turn, stimulates further migration to cities. Krugman's theories have shown that the outcome of these processes can well be that regions become divided into a high-technology urbanized core and a less developed "periphery". From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Ed Weick Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 2:57 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... What I've liked about the many columns and few books by Krugman that I've read is that, like me, he doesn't like the growing income gap between the rich and poor, the growing power of money, the hollowing out of the economy by the application of technology and the export of jobs, and the growth and disenfranchisement of the poor. While he is an economist, a Nobel laureate at that, I see him more as a commentator who is pointing at growing problems that need attention and consistent work even if they are very difficult to resolve. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Cordell <mailto:[email protected]> To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION' <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] Hey,you gotta watch dem machines... But through his incessant trumpeting of outdated solutions he blocks innovative thinking, new ideas. Yes he asks some questions but seems to fear going down the road to possible solutions. Arthur From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of michael gurstein Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 1:51 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... But then all we have is the neo-lib conventional wisdom Economics 101 echo chamber. At least he asks a few of the right questions. M From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:44 AM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... Let's put Krugman out to pasture. He is becoming repetitive and boring. From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Sally Lerner Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:13 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... Yes, the bit tax, and basic income as well. Let's put Krugman in the loop. Sally _____ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of Arthur Cordell [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:11 PM To: [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... Seems like Krugman is finally beginning to move away from his learned dogma. Perhaps he has been reading Keith's postings. In any event time to think about policies for a digital economy and time to think again about the bit tax as a way of distributing the productivity of a highly automated economy so as to maintain effective demand. Arthur From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Ed Weick Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:05 AM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION'; [email protected] Subject: [Ottawadissenters] Hey, you gotta watch dem machines... Krugman's piece in this morning's NYTimes appears to take us well into the realm of science fiction. But then maybe it isn't fiction any more? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/opinion/krugman-is-growth-over.html?hp <http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/opinion/krugman-is-growth-over.html?hp&_r =0> &_r=0 Ed __._,_.___ Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ottawadissenters/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaDA3ZnM3BF 9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE1MjA5MDU5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzUxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsaw NzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMzU2Njk2MzMx> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20 Digest> | Switch to Fully Featured <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Change%20Deliv ery%20Format:%20Fully%20Featured> Visit Your Group <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ottawadissenters;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZTl1Z3M4BF9TAzk 3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE1MjA5MDU5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzUxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGY Ec3RpbWUDMTM1NjY5NjMzMQ--> | Yahoo! 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