http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/09/16/130916fa_fact_lizza?printable= true¤tPage=all
Thanks Steve, you are a humanist. Answers below, forgive the length. REH SK: This reads like Platonic ideals, not Realpolitik. REH: I'm an Artist/Educator but not an academic. So Plato/Kant is one version of education while I'm concerned with how you build something, a voice, a production, a theater, a Cherokee traditional community, etc. That includes politics which demand feet on the ground and classes. Today the GOP is doing such while the Democrats/Progressives are talking - preaching at and patronizing to. Republicans have hope, Democrats/Progressives are cynical. The problem is war. If both do the same then they must go to war to win. Reason will not suffice. It doesn't matter whether its two voice teachers professing the only answer with both being different or two political leaders. What is required for real-politik is sacrifice and the willing spend both the time and energy until you win or ultimately lose. It won't work until you have progressive/liberals carrying guns and going to Town Meetings with Republican/Tea baggers also carrying guns. As long as you have lower class Catholics and their priests preaching that today is like the early church prior to Constantine in Rome, while they have six Supreme Court Justices changing the laws of Congress signed by the President and willed by the people, laws that benefit the Medici Class and classify everyone else as Heathen, then the only answer is conflict. When the other side carries guns, you must carry guns. The Cold War wasn't won by Reagan, it was won by the rules of Tit for Tat right up to the edge of oblivion. I'm not advocating anything but simply speaking of Game Theory as it is played. In the past the Robber Barons were more prone to Tit for Tat, this Zero-Sum present is like before the American Civil War. It was started by expedient structures and individuals on both sides. Today's Washington resembles nothing more than a Byzantine Court with Boehner, Canter, Reid, the Caucuses, etc. The only way out is attention and someone has to get both sides attention including the courts. It happened once before when they made a judgment against a fundamentalist group who refused to stand for the flag. When the country began to kill them for not doing so, the court thought better of their judgment and changed it. I wouldn't travil these days or hike in a National Park. I won't carry a gun and I don't trust people out of uniform with their reason for doing so either. That means I stay in New York City, largely in my library and think. I don't go to family funerals, weddings, etc. I grieve and even hate, I don't go to the NYCity theater because they sold out to the Koch Brothers and made them their Arts Patrons. The Koch steal from poor Indians and self righteously parade around as American Aristocrats. So real politik means that you must have power, money, be willing to give it all up to win and be sure that your path is righteous. I've seen more than one religious folk that were righteous turn their backs on it in order to become King of the Mountain rather than make the "rough places plain." Platonic Ideals, no, Artistic Ideals. Artist begins with "knowing the result before you act", not "trying it out to see what happens". It begins with perfection and then the practice of such until it becomes simple, ordinary and useful. Mastery. SK: Are you saying the below has been the norm in the history of h. superstitious-hierarch? Has it been a rare exception? (I think that is the case) REH: Good question. I'm saying that an evolved individual is a system of priors that flow generally through seven steps. Those priors are the system of individual growth found in training in every culture of the world. 1. Perceptivity and the pursuit of psycho-physical values through the senses, 2. Love and Parenting, 3. Negotiation and becoming, 4. Awareness, recognition and acceptance of potential, 5. Action and a flowering of possibilities, 6. the discovery of generosity as an act of gratitude and 7. the realization of the possibility of Mastery and balancing of the whole system as a healing act. I'm also saying that larger systems like Societies have some version of those same priors but on the level of their own density and size. 1. Perceptivity become Aesthetics and Art as quality expression of communication throughout the larger system. 2. Love and Parenting becomes an exploration of Ultimate Concern and a centering that encounters and confronts the numinous as a dialogue with a greater consciousness. That will become the Foundation for the sixth step. 3. Negotiation and identity become the basis for moral trade and a marketplace where selfishness doesn't mean greed. Ultimate Concern means that you have a responsibility for where the goods you sell go and are used. The opposite of that is an Arms dealer who sew chaos for profit. I thought that Ayn Rand meant Ultimate Concern in her books but upon further reading and talking and watching her students I realized that she was just a shallow expedient greedy person who had little empathy but a large wound. Whether market works or not is dependent upon the quality of the second step in the lives of the traders and is a judgment of cultural responsibility and quality. Unlike Usury, it must extend beyond your own group and into all of your customers or its just another version of expediency. 4. The development of Ensemble Connectivity and Awareness is the goal of all education. The highest development of the individual for their own fulfillment and utility to the community and the highest development of the group dynamic so that the individual is protected and the group reduces the complexity and immaturity in their own consciousness. That's why a child spends thirteen weeks in a Pueblo Kiva and at the end must be able to meditate and connect to an individual many miles away, answer a question posed by that individual and go directly to them with the answer. All without a telephone or map, just connectivity in the mind. That's also the way a circus performer or an iron worker realizes how to watch out for what is behind them as they float high above an audience or even a city. Even if what they are watching behind them with their mind is not a person but a steel beam or a trapeze bar floating towards them. 5. The flowering of action must be controlled by discipline. That means things must be verbalized and laws created for the system. That is political. If the first four domains are well developed and executed then the fifth will handle power in a just and ultimately compassionate manner. Whether of any of this works depends on three things: A. practice and B. discipline and C. Personal and Group psycho-physical awareness. 6. The Foundation of Charity in the individual is Knowledge, the pursuit of Knowledge and the ability to store Knowledge for the future generations. In the group that's all called Science. The sixth is the Domain of Science and there is quite a lot of writing about this on the Internet but the best description I've seen is from my old mentor, John N. Warfield in his book "A Science of Generic Design". When he came to one of our concerts he presented me with a signed hardback copy of the book. Unfortunately I wasn't smart enough to do more than appreciate what he was saying. However, he wasn't the first of my teachers to have been an Engineer and so I realized the value and began a lifelong study of it. He is one of the great Maestro's of my life. He has a terrific map of the Scientific Domain in that book. 7. The Foundation of personal healing and the purpose of dis-ease in the individual is the floor of the reason for the necessity of the Domain of Public Health. Healing is not always the answer but realizing why you're dis-eased and working through to a homeostasis of the whole system can often open the door to genius in both small and large systems. SK: Lastly, do you think that intentionality can drive this to become the rule? (despite massively altered physical conditions and 300% more people than at your birth) REH: The baby is given the intentionality in what indigenous cultures call "The Original Instructions" and unless you deprive and abuse the baby that intentionality will train the child to talk, walk, converse in as many languages as around it, sing, dance, draw, negotiate, etc. I've used the "seven" of most of the cultures of the world including science to define the steps. My culture does the same. In Societies those steps become Domains with boundaries and like a pot on a wheel, with a form of centering as it becomes. But in "Intentionality" there are four steps. The first is Tacit and is the child's original instructions from the "Great Mystery." The second is adolescence and is the time of analysis and practice. You tear apart what you have learned to learn the maps and be able to make new applications through practice. The third step is "Dialog" and is the individual's dialogue in an act of performance (of what they've practiced) in order for the group to stress, test and evolve the learning. In Art this is the concert stage or the opera house or the museum. The fourth step is the individual sealing their knowledge by teaching it to someone else and passing that knowledge on. Of these four steps it is said there are seven layers and a new beginning at the door to each layer. I'm seventy:>)) Yes virtuosity, maturity and discipline working with these traditional educational tools and domains will create the knowledge of rules whether personal, in school, in court or in space. As for groups? You have to leave the world the way you found it. If you use it up, groups will starve as Grandmother Earth renews herself. If you return Her to the condition in which you received her then consciously evolved populations will make the choice to discipline their lives. That's not an "ideal" but a map. The problem has been family wars in societal domains where they created chaos that weakened the entire progression and killed the experts who should have been teaching the young. I have a library and immense amounts of knowledge about many things. When I die it will disappear. I know this because I've lived many lives (in one lifetime) with many great Masters and have some of their libraries and all of their written books. But with all of that, much still was lost when they died. That was my failure in my contract with them as a student and apprentice. As for the society with its hidden Masters? That is a Social failure and a disease built into an environment based upon war. But yes it can change. It requires peace and the structures and systems of Peace not as an absence of War but as a totally different system. War contains peace but not the system of Peace. Peace as an absence of conflict. The system of Peace contains war but not the system of war, just the reality of competition and control that is embodied in the word "discipline." That's why games are so important to the system of Peace, even the game of the stock market. REH From: futurework-boun...@lists.uwaterloo.ca [mailto:futurework-boun...@lists.uwaterloo.ca] On Behalf Of Steve Kurtz Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 9:08 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] Addendum to OMG! OMG! Joe Stiglitz is a SOCIALIST! Ray, This reads like Platonic ideals, not Realpolitik. Are you saying the below has been the norm in the history of h. superstitious-hierarch? Has it been a rare exception? (I think that is the case) Lastly, do you think that intentionality can drive this to become the rule? (despite massively altered physical conditions and 300% more people than at your birth) Steve On Sep 14, 2013, at 2:24 AM, Ray Harrell wrote: The purification of trade and the market constitutes the beginning of negotiation and identity. Group Education forms the basis for Societal agreement and Ensemble coherence. Law and the State flows from that education and constitutes mutual agreements as to civil structure and the concept of civility. From government comes the organization of the pursuit of knowledge, the development of generic reliability (certainty) and the ability to archive for the good of the citizens of the state. Flowing from that agreement is the balance, just like in the individual, of all of the Domains constituting a horizontal rather than a vertical structure.
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