On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Robert E. Bowd wrote:
> Judi:
>
> I know a little bit about the "black dog" of clinical depression, of which you
>speak, and about
> the prozac/post prozac SSRIs, yet I still question your enthusiasm ["godsend"] for
>their
> availability and pervasiveness. Pharmaceutical management in a society that gives
>shortshrift
> to community connectedness and compassion seems like a displacement of the problem
>to me. I
> observe your medical background [RN]. Am I correct in inferring your embrace of the
>medical
> model and the unholy corporate alliance [IMHO] between medicine and the
>pharmaceutical
> companies, in preference to alternative therapies?
No.
As a practitioner, I am wondering if you
> would care to comment upon the recent resurgence of using electrotherapy to treat
>clincical
> depression?
First, I am a former practitioner. Second, electrotherapy is
selectively utilized for the most intractable cases of unipolar and
bipolar illness. The way in which it is administered today in no resembles
the inhumane use of electrotherapy in the past. It is not pleasant, but it
does provide relief for some extremely ill individuals.
Secondly, can you offer an opinion on the viewpoint that drug therapies may be
> seen to be more cost effective, to cost-cutting governments, rather than the more
>costly,
> labour intensive, talk therapies, or, ideally, as suggested by most psychiatrists,
>combination
> of the two?
Studies have shown that a combination of "talk" therapy and
chemotherapy offer the best prognosis for individuals with major clinical
depression.
> Incidentally, I did check in on a message board relating to one of the post-prozac
>drugs
> [Celexa], and I did not get the impression that most of the folks who were posting
>there shared
> your enthusiasm for the drugs, as users. Comments identified complaints such as
>sexual
> dysfunction, zombie-like behaviour, lack of motivation, anxiety, headaches, as common
> side-effects leading to refusal of the drug. One poster said they would only
>continue to use
> the drug because their physician said he/she would not continue to treat them if
>they did not
> take their meds. They also said they were being strongarmed by an insurance company
>to take
> the anti-depressant. I also noticed that one regular poster was a doctor who seemed
>to be
> acting as a foil, for the naysayers, on behalf of the drug company, including losing
>his temper
> when challenged by someone knowledgeable about alternative therapies.
Keep in mind that web message boards are not representative of the
population of clinically depressed people. Most folks who tend to post on
the web represent the sub-population of those who do not find
anti-depressants helpful.
> Depression is something I have thought a great deal about, and observed firsthand,
>but I still
> harbour reservations about the direction in which medical "science" is going, in
>response to a
> clinical problem which is on the increase.
>
I'm glad you're thinking about it.
> Regards,
> Bob Bowd
>
> Judi Kessler wrote:
>
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > As someone who works with clinically depressed individuals, I take offense
> > at your post below. The SSRIs (Prozac and Prozac-like drugs) are a
> > God-send for many folks with major depression. Clearly you have not had
> > the experience of interacting with a family member, friend, or patient
> > living the hell of major depression.
> >
> > *************************************
> > Judi A. Kessler RN, PhD
> > Center for U.S.-Mexican Studies
> > University of California, San Diego
> > 9500 Gilman Drive, Dept. 0510
> > La Jolla, CA 92093-0510 USA
> > (858) 534-4147 or (858) 534-4503
> > *************************************
> >
> > On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, J. Walter Plinge wrote:
> >
> > > News Update
> > > The Wide Wide World O Prozac
> > >
> > > Dear Diary, 8/11/00
> > > The BBC Radio's World Buiness Report told the , ahhh� World, today about how
>Prozac
> > > is about to lose its patent protection and a mass of cheap generics will soon be
> > > let loose on an unsuspecting world. It's is a topic worth pondering. Could it
> > > be, wondered the
> > > announcer to a cohort at Lehman Brothers, that Prozac is actually a major player
> > > in this so called endless economic boom the US has been claiming since, what�
> > > 1912? (Yeah;
> > > 1929 was just a market adjustment.)
> > >
> > > The Lehman Sister, not brother, as claimed, on the other end of the line was
> > > stoned enough
> > > to maintain a semblance of lucidity but obviously not so stoned that she would
> > > agree to
> > > such a logical observation. "People don't take Prozac to become overly happy,"
> > > she said,
> > > "they take it so they can continue to function normally."
> > >
> > > Of course. That's just the point, isn't it? The GM people, asked to fire 10,000
>people
> > > including themselves might have become an unruly mob if not for legal chemicals.
> > > The Bell
> > > Tel people who were asked to ax 40,000 jobs might have had a use for a legal
> > > chemical that
> > > would allow them to continue their sado-masochistic activities while seeming to
>"function
> > > normally." Can it be coincidental that the star of Prozac was ascending at the
> > > same time as
> > > the star of "structural adjustment programs" at the IMF? Our Lehman Sister
> > > disagreed; she
> > > appeared to be functioning normally.
> > >
> > > Makes you wonder though, doesn't it? Was Maggie Thatcher on drugs when she
>proclaimed
> > > Pinochet was "Brittain's Friend?" Or is she that way normally? And what about
> > > Pinochet? If
> > > Prozac was available for distribution in 1973 could he not have pushed the
> > > slaughter rate
> > > from the low thousands into the low millions? If Proazac was available then,
> > > would we not
> > > have a Pinochet Day in the US, just like Christmes? Oh, the missed opportunities!
> > >
> > > We have already seen in the 60s what people on LSD, mushrooms and pot do. They
> > > take to the
> > > streets and stop wars. They kick dictators out of office. So what can we expect
> > > when the
> > > price of Prozac drops from $1 to 10� a hit? If Nike workers can afford Prozac
> > > will they ask
> > > for a wage cut? Will China and India open their currency to the Wall Street
> > > Casino? Will the
> > > Brazilians start giving away the last of their trees just to get rid of them? My
> > > guess is:
> > > YES INDEED!
> > >
> > > I think the economic boom is just starting. I think we are going to see
> > > legislation in a
> > > coupla years that will put Prozac into the drinking water of "chronicly
> > > depressed" nations.
> > > I think that the human central nervous system is mis-wired and there is a CURE
> > > at hand. The
> > > financial collapse of 2001 is just going to be a minor adjustment.
> > >
> > > Happy Dreams and take your medication,
> > > JWP
> > >
> > >
>
