There has been a recent discussion on issues concerning "the Commons" on the e-list Solaris that I co-host which is concerned with critical perspectives on ICT and Development.
I think this discussion might be of interest on Futurework as well hence my forwarding this thread and I would be interested to have the perspective of the folks here on this thread and particularly if they took a look at Bollier's paper. Best, MG -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Gurstein Sent: August 1, 2002 11:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Roberto Verzola; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [solaris]agriculture, industrial and information sectors Hi Tom, You might want to take a closer look. Bollier talks at considerable length about the Open Source issue (he even has interesting things to say contrasting Open Source and GNU). His major innovation (to my mind at least) is precisely in this area where he begins to think through what a non-tragedy (he calls it the "comedy") of the Commons would look like including handling issues like incentives and "market discipline". It isn't complete but it does, I think, take the discussion beyond your point which is does it work anywhere outside Graduate Student coffee rooms. M -----Original Message----- From: tom abeles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 1, 2002 7:29 AM To: Michael Gurstein Cc: Roberto Verzola; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [solaris]agriculture, industrial and information sectors Hi Mike Bollier's piece and other materials are relevant to another aspect of the "commons". These are the same that Hardin was concerned about in his "Tragedy of the Commons" article, natural resources that are in common ownership by the community at large, how they are accessed, maintained and used over the long term. There is a difference between everyone being able to go to a coal mine that is owned in common and chopping out a piece of fuel and my creating a piece of code that is open to the public whether or not they contribute to its improvement or just use it. In fact this is one of the economic problems that some theorists are trying to address. Suck oil out of the ground and get a depletion allowance from the government because your business now has less oil. On the other hand, the community gets no depletion allowance to cover the time when the well runs dry and the community has no more tax base and no jobs. Bollier addresses this aspect which is a separate issue; and while making an eloquent statement, still leaves even his question unanswered. thoughts? tom abeles Michael Gurstein wrote: > Hi Tom, > > I think that Roberto has sketched in the beginnings of a response to your > very useful questioning of the broader significance of Open Source and > particularly how might/could an Open Source "economy" work. > > I would also strongly suggest you and anyone else interested take a look at > David Bollier's long essay Public Assets, Private Profits: Reclaiming the > American Commons which he did for the New America Foundation and which can > be found at www.bollier.org/reclaim.htm where he deals quite directly with > the challenges that you raise. > > Best, > > MG > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf > Of tom abeles > Sent: July 25, 2002 7:38 PM > To: Michael Gurstein > Cc: Roberto Verzola; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [solaris]agriculture, industrial and information sectors > > Hi Mike > > I said nothing about ownership or proprietary control of this material nor > have I > argued against open source materials. I have just asked a very simple > question as > to how do I get fed and clothed and sheltered in an open source network and > what > happens when not all who access or support the commons have equal > opportunity to > benefit. I am just asking how the economy works when one can not eat bits > and > bytes. > > gnutel and its derivatives such as Napster are nice- but eventually someone > must > pay for the servers and their support and the pipes that carry it. > Universities > found this out when their fiber arteries were clogged with students > downloading mp3 > and one couldn't access the libraries. > > Some musicians have no problem with napster because they get exposure and > more > sales or some they would never have had- leverage that is good, they cover > this as > marketing costs. but if no sales, no eat- but then maybe they shouldn't have > been > in music in the first place-- the commons is a harsh mistress. > > What happens when Microsoft can access the open source hacks for its X-Box > and with > several million in petty cash go into the market place and swamp the hackers > writing code- open source? > > We are working with a software company that lets its workers write their own > code > for their own ideas as long as they don't impact negatively on the client > base. A > piece of code that they get may help a client and may launch their employee > on a > new career- but they are willing to underwrite that chance. Open source is > not > necessarily free. > > I don't understand the economy once we get beyond a certain level- code > writers are > an anomalous bunch as are academics in their pub/perish environment- both > are > usually subsidized by their respective employers for their benefit, too. > There are > folks who publish newsletters of scavenged information on the web and do it > graciously and without adverts or subscriptions- others charge egregious > amounts > and get it for much the same information- but it is different-- join the > commons or > pay? then some folks shop k-mart and others get their diamonds at > tiffany's - is a > diamond a diamond--- is a piece of code a piece of code? > > Give away your courses on the internet for free. Then only get paid for > those who > want to be certified by your institution- MIT can afford to put up their > courses > because people want the certification and if push comes to shove they can > get grad > students to evaluate for certification as they do now. With open source, > what > should I pay for a college education? or what should i pay for a certified > degree? > > I don't understand the economics when all costs are laid on the table- > > tom > > solaris--independant forum for IT & development issues > un/sub info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "help" in the > subject > line or in the body of the message. > URL: http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/solaris/ > archive: http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/solaris/
