Greetings, Brad,
Many thanks for your email, and the many helpful observations you make.
> There is no a priori reason not to believe that at least some
> burqa wearers genuinely like it.
Yes, exactly!
> This can be a "reaction formation": Valorizing what one
> is stuck with anyway. It can be lemming-mind. It can be
> a symptom of ignorance that there are any alternatives, i.e.,
> that "it" is anything at all (Burqa as analog to the
> proverbial fish not noticing its water -- I call this
> "categorial deprivation", as opposed to
> "em,pirical deprivation", where one knows there
> is something good which one does not have). And, last but
> not least, it can be "functional": If you are a [wo]man who
> wants to escape (or enter) Taliban territory, a burqa may
> be a good disguise.
I think there is a further and even more compelling category of reasons,
beyond all the somewhat negative reasons you list here (varieties of
igornance and pragmatism): it is, simply -- modesty. Many traditional
cultures value modesty highly, including some in the west, and wear
varieties of clothing and personal behavior to manifest that value.
I think that the prevalence of such practices of modesty may actually be
increasing; anecdotally it is clear that in the last decade or so, some
women who live in countries where they can pretty much, culutrally, wear
anything they want to, have chosen to dress modestly. Black Muslim women in
the US come readily to mind. I wonder to what extent, if this is even a
modest trend, it may be a reaction to the parallel growing trend in American
girls to sluttish dress, e.g. Britney Spears (sp?) and her imitators.
>
> I cite as an analogy male circumcision here in the
> enlightened west (sorry, please capitalize
> the preceding words...). Many men apparently think they
> are better off for it. Some may have no idea anything
> was done to them at all. Many
> do it to their sons so that their sons "won't look different
> in the locker room" (they could, of course, instead,
> question the appropriateness of persons being subjected to
> locker room public nudity!). Etc.
>
> If you want to see how much we live in a free marketplace of
> ideas, try telling the parents of a jewish newborn male
> that they should not genitally mutilate their baby.
> And here, Lawry, I've actually talked to these people.
This is an issue that I am completely new to, Brad -- so you are light-years
ahead of me. I appreciate your discussion and thought-provoking PoV... And
as you will know, I appreciate deeply the fact that you have discussed this
with folks who are doing it. Such discussion does not mean that we have to
in the end agree with those who enagge in practices that we question, but
that we have had such probing discussion is a form of intellectual 'due
diligence', without which we bring misunderstanding and ignorance upon our
selves.
Isn't male circumcision practised now generally by non-Jews, too?
> Some of them have gotten to expect this offensive rudeness
> out of me, so before I tell them, they tell me they already
> know what I am going to say. One replied: "But the
> grandparents are religious and it is very important to them"
> (as if it was the grandparents' foreskins that were at
> issue!). It's a BRIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> And the persons saying this may have elite PhDs even!
Education does not seem to be an automatic defense against ignorance or
habit, does it?
Over the last year or so, I have had many intensive disussions with
American, European and Israeli Jews about Jewish practices. A common thread
is that the practices as seen as part of maintaining and reaffirming Jewish
identity, and that this has a lot to do with the Holocaust experience
specifically and anti-Jewish oppression generally. The preservation of
identity is valued so highly that it at times overrides other values, and
leads to actions that seem to be at variance with other values that we
associate with Jewish tradition.
> I have been told of one jewish couple who did not mutilate
> their son, but I have not had the pleasure of speaking
> with *them*!
>
> So, Lawry, now that I think about it, I don't have to
> "apologize" to you for not having personally talked
> with any burqa wearers.
I have not asked or even thought about such an apology, Brad. I have only
insisted that talking with the people that some so willingly criticize for
their personal and social practices is vital to understanding these
practices -- and should be done before condemning them. And it would seem
from what you describe here that you do so, too....
> I've talked with jewish
> parents of male children, and, as one would say in
> mathematics, they are in the same "remainder class"
> ("congruence class", etc.). Yes, I've taken an
> oar to persons who have never heard of the sea* (albeit
> I've not yet had the courage to do this at work, but
> I am prepared to very politely and self-effacingly
> broach the subject with the person where I work
> who has their PhD from David Gelertner, should this
> person's wife become pregnant with a male child.
> Just like I tell management bad things I see even though
> I know they probablky don't want to hear it and that
> I am "expendable". I cannot do otherwise.
It is so sad that the common reaction to being presented with different PoVs
is to attack, deny, or seek to get rid of the irritant.
> One final thought for you, Lawry:
>
> I am evidence.
Well said.
The Subject as Object...
> (Which is not to preclude that you or anyone else may be
> eviedence, too!)
>
Best regards,
Lawry
