Chris, Sorry but I really do have a lot of work that I must do and must limit this. I read your material and basically stand by everything that I have said. Needless to say I don't agree in any with with your War Criminal accusation. There is a big problem between the language of the Genocide Treaty and the Freedom of Speech Clause in the US Constitution. The Genocide Treaty censors speech and the Nuremburg Trials hung Julius Streicher for his advocacy of violence against Jews in Germany. In the US our Free Speech Clause allows almost anything to be said as long as it isn't acted upon. As for the NRA, you are just wrong about that in spite of the press they recieve. I don't like them much and don't agree but you have been taken in by the hype. As for your Founding Father, I was quoting Schaub and gave the URL for that. He said a lot of the stuff that you have spoken of in your posts. You have had fifty years to join the UN and the reasons that Schaub gave are the same reasons the Republicans give here as well. You give them a lot more malevolence than they possess although I find myself uncomfortable defending them. I think they are limited and reactionary in their thought. Trapped by tradition rather than comfortable with history and locked in the world banking practices in ways that are not good for the marketplace of ideas or for the average worker. It is also true that we have more room than Switzerland for such things as immigrants but you cannot imagine the chaos that insues from the constant mixing of cultures. Even the base language is being challenged at this point and three states have immigrant revolution movements in them. Check out that Aztlan site on the internet.
As for Zionism, the people that you quote are a tiny group. Imagine three little Alpine meadows with a few houses claiming to represent all of Switzerland and saying that there should have never been a Geneva or Zurich since they ruined the basic economy that was the original contract. Sheep herding. As for your Patron Saint, I checked again and I was wrong. He didn't stop them from going outside but from killing each other as I hear you suggested. Now to give you an example that compares to your Anti-zionist URL consider the following young man and his belief about the military http://www.acd.roch.edu/btec/pub/spring2001/ajohn-2/#tradition But I really must congratulate you on your loyalty as a citizen and your pride in your society. It is an impressive record. I understand the guns on the border. We didn't have them and what was 33 million is now less than two, so I would encourage you to keep to the words of your saint and keep those guns handy. But a word of warning. The Mountains didn't protect my people and they won't yours either. We had many warriors who were citizen warriors like yourself and as long as the surrounding neighbors were busy we were prosperous but when they succeeded in stopping their wars with each other, they turned to us. Just a note and a wish of good luck in this time of Thanksgiving for my people. Best to you and yours in this time, Ray Evans Harrell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christoph Reuss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Angels of Death 1b > Ray Evans Harrell wrote: > > So I think you are not correct in your judgment about the soldiers in > > modern warfare. We are so much more complicated than the Geneva > > Convention in its naive simplicity that we can't even deal with the > > definition of Genocide. > > War criminals and their parrots may smear the GC with words like "naive > simplicity", but that doesn't change the fact that they have to obey the > ratified convention. > > > > I would also point out that I know that your country has not signed a > > good many agreements, including the UN for the same reason that America > > has resisted the International Court. > > Wrong on both claims. CH voted to join the UN half a year ago. > America resists the ICC to get away with war crimes -- which was > most certainly NOT the reason for CH to stay out of the UN ! > > > > > Your question (and thus my answer) was about Israel, not about the Jewish > > > people/"nation". That's a crucial difference, especially considering how > > > badly Zionists have treated Jews in the past (such as asking the Swiss > > > gov't to send Jewish refugees back at the border). > > > > Are we back to the Protocols of Zion? Come on Chris, Zionism is a > > buzz word > > "The Protocols" is a buzz word. Zionism is an ideology that is very real, > or do you deny the existence of Herzl, WZO, Zionist congresses etc. too? > > > > I have worked with one of the largest Jewish populations in the world I > > have rarely met such a creature. At one point I knew people who were > > against the foundation of the State of Israel for spiritual reasons. They > > can tell you if they wish, I'm not of their faith and that is taboo in > > mine. But when Israel became a state, they all joined. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Untrue. E.g. Neturei Karta has a clear anti-Zionist position (they also > have representatives in NYC). http://www.netureikarta.org > > > > Maybe all of the Jews in Switzerland are against Israel > > Certainly not. > > > > > The first 70 years of CH (1291-1360) certainly didn't consist of driving > > > millions of natives off their lands and killing many of them, nor of > > > state terrorism, bulldozer wars, curfews with shooting on sight, etc. > > > Nor did any other 70 years of CH history. > > > > Who was Nichlas von Flue talking to when he chided them for involving > > themselves in foreign military affairs? > > He was talking to those who defended their land against foreign oppressors. > Nothing to do with expelling natives. > > > > Chris, every country goes > > through an adolescence when it makes its space. There are no countries > > that don't have such horrors in their backgrounds. > > The big question is by which means, and against whom (local residents or > invaders). > > > > It all depends upon when you say the country began. > > Nope. (And the year is pretty clear.) > > > > Need I point out the fact that the > > racism against Gypsies started in Lucerne > > Yeah right, and athlete's foot started in Rome. > > > > > Yeah right, CH invaded America 1291-1360. Talk about scapegoats. > > > > I hope you don't believe that was what I was saying. Actually there was > > a Swiss presence here and they weren't very nice along with the Danes, the > > Dutch and the Portuguese, the dates were in the 1700s. > > Don't you remember what I once wrote about scum from Europe ? > > > > > > Also my point is that even with peace they still stock their food in the > > > > basement and demand universal military membership. "Well there is > > > > peace but guard the door!" > > > > > > What's wrong with defense in its literal meaning ? (and how would the > > > world look if all countries would behave like this?) > > > > That is the argument of the gun lobby here in the US. > > Defense is their pretext, of course. But in reality, the US gun lobby > is about the opposite of defense: Wildwest imperialism. If the Injun > doesn't hand it over, he'll eat bullets. You ought to know, Ray. > > > > You have a very tiny population, about the population of Manhattan > > Island and you all live connected lives. You have an agreement about > > the minority accepting the will of the majority and not resisting with > > those guns. > > You have no idea of how CH works. Guess what's the point of de-centralized > federalism and consensus policies? That minorities are _not_ subjugated by > the majority. > > > > Just because you haven't fought wars with guns does not mean that your > > money and its manipulation hasn't participated in the history of the rest > > of the world. > > My point remains: If every country would have behaved like that, there > would have been no wars. You can nit-pick all you want, but this is what > matters in the big picture. > > > > As you well know there have been confessions about such > > things in WWII by your own government who made a fetish of being poor, > > small, and armed to the teeth when in actuality they were accepting gold > > melted down from the teeth of Jews and Gypsies. > > In actuality, they were not aware that there was some "teeth gold" among > the accepted gold. Anyway, it turned out later that the "teeth gold" was > only a tiny faction: 0.035 %. Pretty hard to detect. But the "teeth gold" > sure made a great grisly story for the tabloid press. > > Read Finkelstein to understand that the last thing the Holocaust Industry > is interested in is justice for poor victims. This also became clear at > the Durban conference against racism. > > Also, over all the nitpicking over "Nazi gold", let's not forget that it > was _US_ banks and corporations who did the main funding of Nazis and > Hitler's rise in the first place. All _without_ the harsh conditions that > CH was in (stuck between the axis powers), but just for profit motives. > So you're really barking at the wrong tree. > > > > > Your point seems to be that Israel's behavior is justified by the > > > history of the Jewish people. That's wrong, and fortunately, intelligent > > > and progressive Jews agree that it's wrong. > ... > > But are you saying that the Jews of New York are not Progressive? > > They are not progressive as far as they claim rights based on millennia-old > books, and as far as they support imperialist nationalism. > > > > You offered no answer for the Nation of Israel meaning the Jewish Nation. > >> What exactly are you proposing for the Middle East? > > Just read the URLs I provided in this thread. > > > > > If humanity is to > > > survive, it will have to drop this millennia-old religious crap and > > > start addressing _today's_ problems (environmental and social). > > > Progress, please! > > > > History + Environment + Genetics = Today's problems. > > Where on the left side do you put "unwillingness to learning and progress" ? > That seems to be the main problem there. > > > > Why do you think they don't care about that Red Cross on that ambulance? > > History + the fact that Bombs have been found in ambulances + the need to > > survive rather than end up in camps again = Today's problems > > You are trying to justify war crimes with previous war crimes (the > occupation) which led to the bombs in the first place. (IF the bombs > story is true at all...) No hope for justice with such an attitude. > > > > > (for the record, my first name was not > > > chosen based on religion, but inspired > > > by the name of composer Christoph W. Gluck) > > > > The composer who kept Mozart from getting that job in Vienna? > > Another malign distortion. Gluck was 42 years older (and much more > experienced) and it was his job after all. Are you saying Gluck should > have resigned to "free" the job? Gluck even acted as Mozart's protégé > for "la finta semplice". Anyway, Mozart got the job early enough, after > Gluck died. > > Chris > >
