Ed, We *are* clever apes. But I wasn't in any way suggesting that we are only that.
You're evading my point. This is (again!) that man's curiosity and need to innovate is deeply inherent within us and apparent from the very earliest days of homo sapiens. Because most of our problems have arisen from the particular way that our inventiveness (particularly over the past 200 years) has distorted what ought to be a happier and more community-based society, it doesn't mean that it must always be this way. Heilbroner's pessimistic view is really an inverse of the Whig theory of history which dominated historians until recent decades. The latter says how wonderful it is that man has come from crudity and stupidity to producing such as wonderful society as today's. What I'm saying is that we cannot extinguish our curiosity and inventiveness, and that we have to somehow wriggle our way through what seems to be a bleak and unhappy period of history (though it's probably no bleaker or more unhappy than most periods of man's history). Keith At 09:51 06/09/02 -0400, you wrote: >Keith, you make us sound like clever apes. We are more than that, and apes >probably are too. I agree with Heilbroner. Material and technical things >generate wealth and may provide comfort and efficiency but cannot ultimately >answer to the human spirit. This isn't a new discovery associated with the >industrial age. Many people knew it a long time ago - the Buddha, Christ, >St. Francis, Peter Waldo, etc. I think we are rediscovering it. People in >my neighbourhood who live in the biggest houses and drive the biggest SUVs >are no happier than people who live in condos and bicycle to work. I would >agree that we may have to rediscover it en masse as our resources begin to >run out or become less accessible because of chaos in places like the Middle >East. > >Ed > >Ed Weick >577 Melbourne Ave. >Ottawa, ON, K2A 1W7 >Canada >Phone (613) 728 4630 >Fax (613) 728 9382 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:49 AM >Subject: Fallacy of Heilbroner ( wasRE: 35-hour week scrapped > > >> Arthur, >> >> The basic fallacy of Heilbroner (or at least of his quote below) is that >he >> entirely ignores one of the most basic characteristics of the human race >> that is woven deeply into our genes and brains. >> >> This is that we have such enormous curiosity which then translates into >> innovation. We simply can't gainsay this or ignore it. Like it or not, as >> long as we are homo sapiens, we will remain curious and inventive. >> >> Our present society may well be corrosive in many respects because we have >> been led up the industrial path in the last 200 years so easily by access >> to such enormous quantities of relatively cheap fossil fuels. These will >> have to tail off in the foreseeable future. We already see signs that >man's >> curiosity is turning in a more sensible direction -- towards a better >> understanding of what our basic nature is and a more sustainable planet. >> >> Keith >> >> At 15:41 05/09/02 -0400, you wrote: >> <<<< >> Tom's writing and quote of Marcuse caused me to rummage through some old >> notes and papers to find a quote of Robert Heilbroner dating to 1975. >> (Challenge Magazine, May-June, 1975) Rings ever more true today. >> >> "The malaise, I have come more and more to believe, lies in the industrial >> foundation on which our civilization is based. Economic growth and >> technical achievement, the greatest triumphs of our epoch of history, have >> shown themselves to be inadequate sources for collective contentment and >> hope. Material advance, the most profoundly distinguishing attribute of >> industrial capitalism and socialism alike, has proved unable to satisfy >the >> human spirit. Not only the quest for profit but the cult of efficiency >have >> shown themselves ultimately corrosive for human well-being. A society >> dominated by the machine process, dependent on factory and office routine, >> celebrating itself in the act of individual consumption, is finally >> insufficient to retain our loyalty." >> >>>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- >> -------------- >> >> Keith Hudson,6 Upper Camden Place, Bath BA1 5HX, England >> Tel:01225 312622/444881; Fax:01225 447727; E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Keith Hudson,6 Upper Camden Place, Bath BA1 5HX, England Tel:01225 312622/444881; Fax:01225 447727; E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ________________________________________________________________________
