Keith, I don't doubt that we are curious, but I do wonder whether we have an
inherent need to innovate. It's possible that innovations, at least
initially, perhaps arose out of three things. One is that we have a large
brain that it able to innovate. A second is necessity. We may have been
driven to innovate because of changing conditions. I'm not sure of what to
call the third. Perhaps self-interest or laziness - i.e. finding easier
ways of doing things - digging wells and exploiting ground water rather than
walking five miles to the river bank. (And, of course, once you had a well
you could charge people for the water.)
Given these things, and probably others, there was never any reason to
expect that innovation would serve some broader common good rather than the
interests of the particular tribe or even a particular elite group within
the tribe. Innovation would take whatever direction the tribe or elite
group wanted to take it. During the past two hundred years or so,
innovation has been led by the owners of capital, a group which has become
increasingly broader in society as more and more people have become
shareholders. As shareholders, workers and consumers, we have become
dependent on innovation of a particular type, one which stresses
materiality, wealth generation and technical achievement. We could have
innovated in some other way. Other societies did. Heilbroner is right. In
innovating the way we have, we've catered to a certain part of ourselves,
but have left a whole lot out. We may also have gone too far in an
unsustainable direction.
Ed
> Ed,
>
> We *are* clever apes. But I wasn't in any way suggesting that we are only
> that.
>
> You're evading my point. This is (again!) that man's curiosity and need to
> innovate is deeply inherent within us and apparent from the very earliest
> days of homo sapiens. Because most of our problems have arisen from the
> particular way that our inventiveness (particularly over the past 200
> years) has distorted what ought to be a happier and more community-based
> society, it doesn't mean that it must always be this way.
>
> Heilbroner's pessimistic view is really an inverse of the Whig theory of
> history which dominated historians until recent decades. The latter says
> how wonderful it is that man has come from crudity and stupidity to
> producing such as wonderful society as today's.
>
> What I'm saying is that we cannot extinguish our curiosity and
> inventiveness, and that we have to somehow wriggle our way through what
> seems to be a bleak and unhappy period of history (though it's probably no
> bleaker or more unhappy than most periods of man's history).
>
> Keith
>
>
> At 09:51 06/09/02 -0400, you wrote:
> >Keith, you make us sound like clever apes. We are more than that, and
apes
> >probably are too. I agree with Heilbroner. Material and technical
things
> >generate wealth and may provide comfort and efficiency but cannot
ultimately
> >answer to the human spirit. This isn't a new discovery associated with
the
> >industrial age. Many people knew it a long time ago - the Buddha,
Christ,
> >St. Francis, Peter Waldo, etc. I think we are rediscovering it. People
in
> >my neighbourhood who live in the biggest houses and drive the biggest
SUVs
> >are no happier than people who live in condos and bicycle to work. I
would
> >agree that we may have to rediscover it en masse as our resources begin
to
> >run out or become less accessible because of chaos in places like the
Middle
> >East.
> >
> >Ed
> >
> >Ed Weick
> >577 Melbourne Ave.
> >Ottawa, ON, K2A 1W7
> >Canada
> >Phone (613) 728 4630
> >Fax (613) 728 9382
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:49 AM
> >Subject: Fallacy of Heilbroner ( wasRE: 35-hour week scrapped
> >
> >
> >> Arthur,
> >>
> >> The basic fallacy of Heilbroner (or at least of his quote below) is
that
> >he
> >> entirely ignores one of the most basic characteristics of the human
race
> >> that is woven deeply into our genes and brains.
> >>
> >> This is that we have such enormous curiosity which then translates into
> >> innovation. We simply can't gainsay this or ignore it. Like it or not,
as
> >> long as we are homo sapiens, we will remain curious and inventive.
> >>
> >> Our present society may well be corrosive in many respects because we
have
> >> been led up the industrial path in the last 200 years so easily by
access
> >> to such enormous quantities of relatively cheap fossil fuels. These
will
> >> have to tail off in the foreseeable future. We already see signs that
> >man's
> >> curiosity is turning in a more sensible direction -- towards a better
> >> understanding of what our basic nature is and a more sustainable
planet.
> >>
> >> Keith
> >>
> >> At 15:41 05/09/02 -0400, you wrote:
> >> <<<<
> >> Tom's writing and quote of Marcuse caused me to rummage through some
old
> >> notes and papers to find a quote of Robert Heilbroner dating to 1975.
> >> (Challenge Magazine, May-June, 1975) Rings ever more true today.
> >>
> >> "The malaise, I have come more and more to believe, lies in the
industrial
> >> foundation on which our civilization is based. Economic growth and
> >> technical achievement, the greatest triumphs of our epoch of history,
have
> >> shown themselves to be inadequate sources for collective contentment
and
> >> hope. Material advance, the most profoundly distinguishing attribute
of
> >> industrial capitalism and socialism alike, has proved unable to satisfy
> >the
> >> human spirit. Not only the quest for profit but the cult of efficiency
> >have
> >> shown themselves ultimately corrosive for human well-being. A society
> >> dominated by the machine process, dependent on factory and office
routine,
> >> celebrating itself in the act of individual consumption, is finally
> >> insufficient to retain our loyalty."
> >> >>>>
> >>
>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >--
> >> --------------
> >>
> >> Keith Hudson,6 Upper Camden Place, Bath BA1 5HX, England
> >> Tel:01225 312622/444881; Fax:01225 447727; E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
________________________________________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------------
>
> Keith Hudson,6 Upper Camden Place, Bath BA1 5HX, England
> Tel:01225 312622/444881; Fax:01225 447727; E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
