I readily admit to no personal experience with Egypt and to have studied little about it.
I do read the New York Times, and I believe I cited the article about where Mohammad Atta and those like him "come from" -- it is not poverty, but it is lack of a "life". I follow a serious international internet forum on female genital mutilation, and I have read estimates as high as 90% of Egyptean women being thus "improved in what nature left not quite finished". I do not see anything in the NYT about Egypt like what was in the recent Sunday NYT magazine about Iran. No doubt there are privileged, cosmopolitan areas in Cairo, as there are in the poor countries of the Americas and everywhere else, although I think you yourself said the population density is enormous, which seems to me not a recipe for cosmopolitanism but for the negative effects of social and cultural life of crowding. Finally, I fail to see what Egypt having a 5,000 year "history" has to do with anything relevent to the Egyptean people (as opposed to Harvard and Univ. of Cairo PhD Egyptologists). The only history that matters is effective history, i.e., what persons living today understand in their lives -- and it is my understanding that the ability to read heiroglyphics was lost for at least 2 millenia before Champoleon came along to visit from France (or did the Rosetta stone come to him?). I would welcome material to change my opinion, especially in such areas as broad epidemiological evidence that little girls no longer being geniatlly mutilated. I may be wrong, but thru the peephole the NYT provides me, I think there is more hope for Iran than for Egypt -- perhaps in part because, under the Shah, Iran did have a more modern, liberal society for a while (which, as the old Ponderosa Steak House ad slogan went:) The Iranians didn't know how good it was till they ate somewhere else [the Khomeni fundamentalist convulution]. By "wasteland" I was not suggesting low population density, but rather a "spiritual" condition. Again, I hope I am wrong, for the more wrong my percention is, the better it will likely be for The West (as well as for the Egyptean people themselves, if cosmopolitanism -- to live in a universal polis -- is something they would find to be good). \brad mccormick Lawrence de Bivort wrote: > > Egypt a wasteland???? > > It is a vibrant, interesting country. Some very educated people, and pretty > urbane. Much more cosmopolitan and internationally oriented than any US city > besides Washington and New York. Active antiquties and art programs. Big > foreign community. People from around the world routinely visit Cairo. Some > of the world's greatest scuba diving, great restaurants, poly-lingual and > poly-cultural. > > Why in the world do you characterize it as a wasteland??? And of course, > the question: have you ever visited Cairo? > > And yes, there are HUGE differences between Iran and Egypt! > > Lawry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Brad > > McCormick, Ed.D. > > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:31 PM > > To: Ed Weick > > Cc: Keith Hudson; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: FW Noam Chomsky in The Guardian Sept. 9 > > > > > > I wonder if Iran differs dramatically from Egypt here? > > > > Young Iranians appear to be educated and eager to > > enter the modern world. Perhaps this is partly due to > > women being educated, too. THE nyt sUNDAY mAGAZINE HAD > > a big article on this a couple weeks ago. > > > > On the other hand, Egypt seems a wasteland. The NYT > > ran an article on "Nowhere man: Islam alone did > > not produce Mohammad Atta", which was very different > > in tone: > > > > http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/quotes.html#Q85 > > > > I see Iran as much more hopeful than the Arab world. > > > > But I do find interesting the news today that > > Iraq is interested in restoring its trade relations with > > the U.S.! Money is thicker than Blut und Boden! Maybe > > there is hope here? > > > > \brad mccormick > > > > > > > > > Ed Weick wrote: > > > > > > > (EW) > > > > <<<< > > > > Keith, I know all that. I've been busy, but I've followed at least > > > some of > > > > the stuff people have put on the list about Bush's intentions. The > > > point I > > > > was trying to make was that the number of people who hate America is > > > > growing and spreading, > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > I'd like to suggest that when people are stressed badly enough > > > they're > > > > capable of believing anything and doing anything. By "people" what > > > we > > > > really mean, when talking about the Muslim countries today, are the > > > excess > > > > numbers of young men without jobs who can, and do, come out in the > > > streets > > > > at the drop of a hat. They may well call themselves anti-American > > > because > > > > that's an acceptable slogan given the nature of their culture, but I > > > don't > > > > believe they really are at all. I've mentioned previously some of > > > the brief > > > > insights that I've picked up from journalists in both Iran and Saudi > > > Arabia > > > > where, given the slightest slackening of the religious leash, young > > > people > > > > take to dancing in the streets with western music and dancing. (As > > > soon as > > > > the Taliban was defeated in Afghanistan, millions of tapes and CDs > > > of > > > > western music were brought out of hiding and filled the shops of > > > Kabul > > > > within days.) > > [snip] > > -- > > Let your light so shine before men, > > that they may see your good works.... (Matt 5:16) > > > > Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thes 5:21) > > > > <![%THINK;[SGML+APL]]> Brad McCormick, Ed.D. / [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Visit my website ==> http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/ > > -- Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works.... (Matt 5:16) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thes 5:21) <![%THINK;[SGML+APL]]> Brad McCormick, Ed.D. / [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my website ==> http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/
