Harry,

For the life of me, I can't figure out what your comments have to do with my
suggestion about the Skoyles and Sagan book.

The point is not how we survive and whether it is a matter of joining
groups; the point is that the human brain is enormously flexible and
proactive to the point that it transcends and transforms its genetic
relationships.

I just thought I would mention the book for those who would like another
point of view based on the latest dicoveries about the way the brain
functions.

Selma


----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Selma Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: Review of "The Blank Slate"


> Selma,
>
> I would expect that humans  must first survive. If they don't survive, all
> other bets are off. So, everything we do from the first reflex action of
> mouth to nipple is bent toward survival. As you may know, in my economics
> courses, the question is posed: "Is he more or less likely to survive the
> winter?"
>
> Most of the things we do are not all that critical. So, we can modify this
> thought to 'we seek to act to our advantage' or 'we seek personal
advantage
> in the things to do'.
>
> The corollary is that if you act to your disadvantage you will be less
> likely to survive the winter.
>
> But long before we reach the point of using our reason to make decisions,
> we arrive apparently pretty much a Blank Slate. But, our parents have
> survived the winter as have those who were before them. I suggest this
> would allow us to infer that those who have survived through these
> generations must have stronger survival advantages than those who
perished.
>
> It seems sensible to conclude that those who cooperate and trade with each
> other for mutual advantage would have a better chance to survive than
those
> who don't cooperate with others. It also means that the chubby little
> bundle - the offspring of parents who come from a long line of people who
> cooperated - may not be such a Blank Slate as first appears.
>
> Other questions we can wait for, but is it an advantage to us (a survival
> characteristic) to live with people who "naturally" protect children - any
> children. Is it sensible (a survival characteristic) for us to save the
> children and the women before worrying about the men?
>
> I'll leave it to the "experts" to fight with each other to decide whether
> or not cooperation is passed down through our genes, or perhaps is the
> result of a malformation of the brain, or something. It seems to me we are
> a cooperative society because it is to our advantage.
>
> Keith has discussed often the apparent need for groups to form among the
> young. Is this because of the not-so-Blank-Slate, or because they have
> decided they are better off in a group? Do they naturally come together.
or
> do they deliberately choose it? Watch a new kid on the block try to make
> friends.
>
> How soon does reason (our substitute for instinct) kick in, so we
> deliberately join a group? Perhaps when the chubby little bundle
associates
> crying with a warm cuddle and warm food?
>
> But, the crucial part of it all is that we act to our advantage (if we
hope
> to survive the winter).
>
> Because we are like this, someone who acts in an apparent contrary fashion
> is admired by us. The volunteer, the person who gives of himself without
> reward is much admired. Yet, cooperation is reciprocal, or it doesn't
work.
>
> The kids read (approximately) : "Bill helps Joe all the time. He helps Joe
> with his house, with his harvest, with his children. Joe never helps Bill
> with his harvest or anything else. Who has a better chance of surviving
the
> winter."
>
> Harry
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
>
> Selma wrote:
>
> >Those who are so enthralled with Steven Pinker and others like him might
be
> >interested in a new book by John R. Skoyles and Dorion Sagan  *Up From
> >Dragons* The Evolution of Human Intelligence.
> >
> >They examine some of the more recent discoveries about the remarkable
> >flexiblility of the brain pretty much demolish the arguments of Pinkernd
> >others who seem enthralled with the idea of human mind and human nature
> >being programmed by genes.
> >
> >Selma
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:36 AM
> >Subject: Review of "The Blank Slate"
> >
> >
> > > Some FWers might be interested in the New Scientist review of "The
Blank
> > > Slate"
> > >
> > > Keith Hudson
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > > The Blank Slate: The modern denial of human nature, by Steven Pinker
> >(Allen
> > > Lane/ The Penguin Press)
> > >
> > > The blank slate of Steven Pinker's title is the "white paper void of
all
> > > characters, without any ideas" to which philosopher John Locke
compares
> >the
> > > original state of the mind, as it passively waits for experience to
> >provide
> > > it with the materials of thought and knowledge. Generalised beyond
> >anything
> > > Locke intended, the idea would be that the mind is empty of any powers
or
> > > dispositions at all until life's journey gets under way.
> > >
> > > Gottfried Leibniz and David Hume, to mention but two, saw how hopeless
> >this
> > > idea was, since at the very least the mind or brain needs the capacity
to
> > > make something of whatever it is that experience affords us. But
according
> > > to Pinker's messianic book the idea lives on, often harnessed
> > > (inconsistently) with the romantic view that the blank mind is
inherently
> > > noble and that violence, aggression, even a deficient sense of humour
or a
> > > tin ear, must be the fault of bad parenting, bad environment or other
> > > defects of culture or society.
> > >
> > > Pinker believes that this bad idea infuses a whole cocktail of
practical
> > > mistakes, including utopian politics, madcap schemes of social
> >engineering,
> > > optimistic educational programmes and ludicrous views about gender. To
> > > oppose it he mobilises the most modern of sciences, notably
neuroscience,
> > > genetics, evolutionary theory, and particularly evolutionary
psychology.
> > >
> > > The Blank Slate is brilliant in several dimensions. It is enjoyable,
> > > informative, clear, humane and sensible. Pinker is well aware of the
> > > emotions and self-deceptions that swirl around the science of human
> >nature,
> > > and he parades a lurid cast of villains from behaviourist B.F. Skinner
to
> > > psychologist Jerome Kagan.
> > >
> > > It is difficult to be morally sensitive while treading on people's
dreams.
> > > But Pinker manages it, while never compromising on the point that good
> > > morals and politics need to acknowledge the truth about human beings
as
> > > they are, rather than how we might like them to be. Its political
motto
> > > might be the remark E. O. Wilson made about Karl Marx: "Wonderful
theory.
> > > Wrong species."
> > >
> > > All this is very sound. But is the breathless deference to the new
> >sciences
> > > of the mind and brain appropriate? Pinker writes rhetorically: "Every
> > > student of political science is taught that political ideologies are
based
> > > on theories of human nature. Why must they be based on theories that
are
> > > three hundred years out of date?" Yet his chapter on conflict and
violence
> > > explicitly relies almost entirely on Thomas Hobbes, and his perceptive
> > > remarks on human greed and status come from political economists Adam
> >Smith
> > > and Thorstein Veblen. Pinker contrasts real science with "armchair"
> > > theorising. But most theorising is done in armchairs, and such writers
> >were
> > > gifted observers of human nature long before they sat in theirs.
> > >
> > > If we read carefully, the contributions of evolutionary theory,
psychology
> > > or neuroscience appear to be either little or controversial. For
example,
> > > Pinker says that there is an overwhelming consensus among experts that
> > > exposure to media violence does not make children more violent. But I
read
> > > the book immediately after attending a conference on law and human
nature
> > > which was told with equal certainty of a consensus among experts on
just
> > > the opposite. Evidently measuring what the experts think is as hard as
> > > measuring anything else.
> > >
> > > When it comes to evolution and psychology the matter is no different.
> > > Pinker is unusually clear about the distinction between underlying
> > > evolutionary mechanisms (selfish genes) and proximate psychological
> > > mechanisms (overt motivations, such as lust or envy, altruism or
malice).
> > > But politics and education need to assess the degree of freedom
evolution
> > > may leave to those mechanisms, as we seek to influence them for the
> >better.
> > > If we want to know about that, Hobbes or Leo Tolstoy may still be
better
> > > guides than the American Psychological Association.
> > >
> > > Simon Blackburn is professor of philosophy at the University of
Cambridge
> > > Simon Blackburn
>
>
>
> ******************************
> Harry Pollard
> Henry George School of LA
> Box 655
> Tujunga  CA  91042
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: (818) 352-4141
> Fax: (818) 353-2242
> *******************************
>
>

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