Harry, does your computer accept Rich Text
Format? If it does then I am confused why you would
misquote me? If on the other hand, your computer, does not then it
fitted my comments into its mold and came up with the wrong answer as to what I
had said which is pretty well what happened with the rest of your impractical
non-pragmatic statements. Holism has to do with knowing that no matter how
well the dam is built that the porous limestone that the dam is based upon in
addition to the poor PH count on the water will eventually melt the surroundings
of the dam and send the entire magnificent edifice down the gorge towards your
summer home.
I realize that your definitions of economics
has been a good thing for your business but it has also been a lousy thing
for mine. That being the case my only alternatives were:
1. to seek another vocation, or2. to move to Germany and sing and teach in their systems set up by Americans to prove that American socialism was far superior to Communist Socialism in the culture area or3. to stay here at home and work in education and spend all of my money making art and forget about the affluence that you enjoy.
This is my land and I am tied to it and the
culture of my people. I elected not to immigrate.
I also could not find the pleasure of my life in the drudgery that other people
seemed willing to tolerate for a good medical plan, a house/car and a
retirement. I looked at the amount of heart disease and the
shortness of life after retirement and judged that the insurance companies made
a pretty good bet when they bet on my dying before I could spend even half of
what I had put away for my retirement. Therefore I opted to make art
and did. I've done a lot and made no money at it although I do
have a nice paper trail which that computer will archive.
I also have many friends, colleagues,
students, etc. who I have helped to achieve and that is another
success. On the other hand, I have those who have put in the
drudgery and planned an inheritance for their children other than education
and now they have lost it all in the demise of their retirement
funds. And they gave up their talents for the
beast. So which was better for the Nation, my community, my culture,
my family and my talent? or Their majoring on affluence
or my majoring on exploration and innovation in my talent
area? I think their lives were essentially wasted
in terms of anything but the immediacy of their families. I
don't know why that should matter in the long term either. My family
taught me that if you weren't significant then you were not earning your keep or
deserving your life. For better or worse, that is also the
assumption that I share with them. I don't believe that you
deserve anything simply because you exist. I also don't believe that
you deserve your desires, only that you have them. I
happen to believe that there are essentials in society that you do not agree
to. I also believe that the only way that you can prove that
they are not essential is if you give them up and get along just fine without
them. Beauty, for example, in all its forms.
I happen to believe that America is a "free rider" on the backs of their own
practitioners of beauty and basically enslave them because of their
unwillingness to sacrifice their talent to boredom and professional
misery. An example of what I mean could be
the Roman Catholic Church giving away all of the paintings and refusing to do
all of the music of Homosexual composers and artists. Since
they acknowledge that it is an "abomination to God" and a "mortal sin" then they
should let the rest of the world enjoy the vice and give up the Sistine
Chapel, The Last Supper, the David, the Pieta just to mention a
few. And all of the works of Schubert, Duparc, Villon,
etc. etc. etc.. But they believe that they can have it
all and on the "cheap" and I don't believe that. I
believe that the least cost is the way to the most pitiful output unless you
know the whole story and can plan well.
So you can knock "holism" all you want
but the root of holism is "integer" or the basis of "integrity" which springs
from understanding, knowledge and cultivation of the "whole."
As for your four elements I think it
makes about as much sense as "earth, air, fire and water," in the long
run.
Good to see that the old Lion can still
growl a bit.
REH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 3:18
PM
Subject: Re: Meme 027
>
> You quoted:
>
> We live in a very complex world. Global interdependencies intermediated by
> specialists in long supply chains have, for the west at least, given us
> access to the wealth of the planet. This complexity is to a large extent
> managed and controlled by technology. Networks and computers can easily
> keep track of all the transactions needed to move bananas from Costa Rica
> to Calgary. The problem is that there is no upper limit on what people
> want, and no lower limit to the price we will pay for it.
>
> And commented:
>
> RAY: This is an interesting corollary to Harry's "Man's Desires are
> unlimited" with the corresponding "Man wishes to satisfy his desires
> with the lowest possible cost." What is missing in both of these is the
> holistic application of both desire and cost. Consciousness requires
> that the knowledge of the Desire (upper limit) be complete in order to
> compute whether the cost is truly low or just put off for another day at
> far greater expense, like the problem of the local credit card with an
> initial low interest rate that rises astronomically in six months and
> requires such supervision that managing credit becomes one of the main
> intentionalities of your life. That is the problem with the application
> of most scientific simplicities to ordinary life.
>
> He is indeed repeating the two Assumptions - in a different way, which is
> fine. But stop the holisticing (wow!) - which is not part of the two
> Assumptions. Other than survival and the observable fact that people try to
> advantage themselves, it is not easy to know precisely how people will act.
>
> Having said that, it is surprising how much we know about each other's
> behavior. You have decided that the alternative of using a high interest
> credit card is less preferable than going without.
>
> Yet, if you want to see the Ryder Cup matches and can get up at 4am (West
> Coast) to watch them, but you are financially bonkered, perhaps the credit
> card route is the way to get a TV set and enjoy the golf . (It's on this
> weekend, incidentally, so rush to your TV set, or grab your credit card.)
>
> Credit cards are a great convenience. I must say I buy practically
> everything with my 3 credit cards - even groceries at the local stores.
>
> Whatever people do voluntarily, no matter how much we disapprove, is fine.
> We should step in, protest, harangue, battle against conditions that
> externally force involuntary actions - but otherwise leave people alone to
> make their mistakes - if they are indeed theirs.
>
> You also quote:
>
> RAY: Networks and computers can easily keep track of all the transactions
> needed to move bananas from Costa Rica to Calgary.
>
> We keep worrying about the terribly complex world, when any complexity has
> been grafted on to it by academic enthusiasm, and "experts" who are paid to
> create and handle these complexities.
>
> I am horrified that Calgary had no bananas available before computers.
>
> You'll remember my favorite example of trade from the thirties. Trees were
> cut in Sweden and sent to England. There, they were turned into match
> sticks, then sent back to Sweden to be tipped.
>
> The Swedes than returned the tipped matches to England, where they were
> boxed and sold. All this without a computer in sight.
>
> Why go through that? Because at that time and place , it was the most
> efficient way to accomplish the objective. Chris has complained about all
> that transportation and its effect on the environment. But, few people
> cared about the environment in those dark depression days. They had more
> important things to worry about. Their lack of computers wasn't one of them.
>
> But, we have convinced ourselves that everything is now complex, but
> fortunately the complexity can be handled by computers, which machines are
> absolutely essential to keep the economy going. Well, they are good tools,
> so let's use them - but that's all. We are told that "Unfilled I/T jobs in
> the US alone are in the hundred of thousands."
>
> Then, why hasn't everything come to a standstill?
>
> Think of the complexity of an offset printing machine. Or those enormous
> machines that print our morning papers. All those levers, and wheels, and
> sensing devices - unbelievably complex. Yet, not to the people who make
> them and service them. A Boeing 747 is a mightily complex device. Yet, not
> to the people who make and service them.
>
> When we are faced by a 747, we simplify. People swarm over the machine -
> each with his area of expertise. When each has finished his duty is done.
> Then someone examines and tests the whole machine, but he probably knows
> nothing about the individual parts of the plane. He's only interested in
> whether they work.
>
> I'll repeat. Complexity is the meat and potatoes of academe and "experts".
> In real life, the first thing we do with complexity is break it down to
> simpler pieces.
>
> You'll recall that Classical Political Economy (after the Assumptions)
> broke down everything into categories. Everything in the universe - but
> we'll stay with earth - can be exhaustively placed into four classes. Each
> class is mutually exclusive. Nothing that is in one class can be in another.
>
> The four classes are Land, Labor, Capital, and Wealth - everything is in
> them - but only in one.
>
> That was a century or two ago - but nothing is changed. Everything still
> finds itself in one category or the other (even God, Brad). Cutting the
> universe into bit-sized chunks was the beginning of analysis.
>
> Examining the "big picture" - dealing with complexity - is the way to
> confusion and danger.
>
> So, that's what we will find - have found.
>
> Harry
> ______________________________________________
>
> Ray wrote:
>
> >BIO-INFO CONVERGENCE
> >Autonomic Computing
> >
> >We live in a very complex world. Global interdependencies intermediated by
> >specialists in long supply chains have, for the west at least, given us
> >access to the wealth of the planet. This complexity is to a large extent
> >managed and controlled by technology. Networks and computers can easily
> >keep track of all the transactions needed to move bananas from Costa Rica
> >to Calgary. The problem is that there is no upper limit on what people
> >want, and no lower limit to the price we will pay for it.
> >
> >This is an interesting corollary to Harry's "Man's Desires are
> >unlimited" with the corresponding "Man wishes to satisfy his desires
> >with the lowest possible cost." What is missing in both of these is the
> >holistic application of both desire and cost. Consciousness requires
> >that the knowledge of the Desire (upper limit) be complete in order to
> >compute whether the cost is truly low or just put off for another day at
> >far greater expense, like the problem of the local credit card with an
> >initial low interest rate that rises astronomically in six months and
> >requires such supervision that managing credit becomes one of the main
> >intentionalities of your life. That is the problem with the application
> >of most scientific simplicities to ordinary life.
> >
> >The drive for productivity has resulted in more computers, networks,
> >databases and robots. The growth has been exponential at all levels: raw
> >computing power, available storage, number of devices and network
> >connections. It has also led to unprecedented levels of complexity. To the
> >point that complexity is one of the most serious challenges we face today.
> >Unfilled I/T jobs in the US alone are in the hundred of thousands. The
> >demand for skilled IT workers is expected to double in the next 6 years.
> >
> >Same problem. Conscious awareness and supervision of the intention of
> >your life can take more time than actually doing the things you wanted to
> >accomplish.
> >
> >The possibility that computer systems may be beyond management and control
> >is not good news for a society that critically relies on them.
> >Increasingly, the gatekeepers of this technology, IBM, HP, Sun, Oracle,
> >and Microsoft have recognized the problem and are turning to biological
> >models to deal with it.
> >
> >The approach being studied is called autonomic computing. It attempts to
> >design self-managed computing systems which require a minimum of human
> >interference. The term derives from the body's autonomic nervous system,
> >which controls key functions without conscious awareness or involvement
> >Such systems are designed to be self-managed, self-aware, self-balancing,
> >self-diagnostic and self-repairing. The emphasis is on self. These
> >machines do not need human intervention.
> >People who meditate know that the autonomic nervous system is not really
> >autonomic. It is interfered with on many different levels by
> >consciousness that is not integrated into the aware mind. At another
> >time in history, religion and meditation was about developing and
> >maintaining such consciousness which was defined as wisdom and considered
> >a desirable tool and resource for the citizens of the society. I can
> >imagine it being so again in coordination with serious psycho-physical
> >work on the "body instrument" that is then integrated with the organic
> >computer to increase attention and speed of comprehension. Of course if
> >you do that then you are a member of the Borg Collective.
> >
> >
> >Unanswered in all this is whether or not we are replacing complexity we
> >can barely manage, with complexity that we have no hope of managing.
> >
> >I guess that depends upon your skill at Kayaking. Most are unable to
> >get beyond the pontoon raft. Most of the development that I have is a
> >result of self exploration in the performing arts both alone and with
> >"learning teams" i.e. ensembles. Most of today's citizens have little
> >taste for that or are simply not capable of enduring the necessary
> >discipline to create the psycho-physical tool necessary to do the
> >work. I've always assumed that was the reason that most of the great
> >scientists played or sang complicated musical structures. It helped
> >them manage their "time" and reduced performance complexity. "Nothing is
> >complex if you know how to do it."
> >
> >IBM has listed eight elements that define this technology, and have also
> >web-published a paper positioning autonomic computing in a "manifesto".
> >[There is a spectre haunting the planet, the spectre of complexity.
> >Machines of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your administrators.]
> ><http://www.research.ibm.com/autonomic/overview/elements.html>[IBM 8
> >Elements]
> ><http://www.research.ibm.com/autonomic/manifesto/autonomic_computing.pdf>[IBM
> >Manifesto]
> >
> >Have you ever notice how IBM uses musical symbols to define graphically
> >much of their issues?
> >
> >Ray Evans Harrell
>
>
> ******************************
> Harry Pollard
> Henry George School of LA
> Box 655
> Tujunga CA 91042
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: (818) 352-4141
> Fax: (818) 353-2242
> *******************************
>
>
>
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