Harry, Very sensible. I believe that the issue is one of attention. I agree with you about the uselessness of war as a policy. I do however, believe that the most sensible solution to war that has to date been found is the Fail Safe solution of the Cold War. I would suggest a clear mutual defense pact with the nations of the world. I would agree with GWB that you are either with us or against us in the case of Guerilla Warfare. I would target the major cities of the opposing nations and tell them that any firing on our nation or those who we have treaties with would provoke an immediate response based upon the act of aggression. I would emphasize that the US Capital is as sacred to Americans as Mecca and Medina are to Osama Bin Laden and that we have plenty of bombs to respond to any act of aggression that they could imagine with plenty left over. If the issue is Nuclear Winter then I would use whatever was at our disposal in a withering response that would guarantee that any elimination of our population would simply include them as well.
They can have their bombs and CBR arsenals but any arsenal that they have or use in any way would mean that we would target them in at least twice the amount that they could possible mount themselves. That they are responsible for their own populations and that any act of aggression by their population would include their government as well. That would include us with our "crazies" as well. If Americans are held responsible for any act by any American anywhere then we will not allow such dopes to use and abuse the sensibleness of the Constitution to the detriment of the nation as a whole. The issue is to convince such Messianic idiots that the only solution is living together or mutual annihilation. I simply would not allow ourselves to be nibbled to death by the many and the small. But you must remember that the only place these folks have ever lived together in peace was in Genghis Khan's China where these proselytizing games were met with a head on a pike. But I'm a Pagan as was the Great Khan. I lived through the Cold War and saw Reagan blow his opportunity to dis-arm the Soviet Union instead electing to be a Messianic Capitalist himself. We are paying for that now. It will take a time of brutality to stop what is going on. I don't agree with GWB that it is an issue of "evil-doers". I don't believe there are any pure souls around. I do believe however that it is an issue of balance and finding a way to build "uprightness" again as the image that makes us all uniquely human. It was the thalidomide babies who showed us the potential of the human spine when they climbed stairs with no arms or legs. It is those two Siamese little girls who have learned to coordinate one body with two heads that show what it means to be a true ensemble or learning organization. It is up to us to learn to live together, and to understand that a limitation of options often makes us give up our fantasies and deal sensibly. Otherwise I don't see much hope with groups who value soul and child stealing as a higher good for their spirituality. Ray Evans Harrell resident Pagan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Karen Watters Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Christoph Reuss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Frank Hample" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Arthur Cordell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lawrence de Bivort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:20 PM Subject: RE: addendum Re: whose ghetto ? > Karen, > > I got a delightful and practical view of war from a Dane - I think in > Odense not far from Copenhagen. He told me that Denmark went to war against > practically everyone. Then, the Danes noticed that after every war Denmark > was smaller. So, they stopped going to war. > > The experience of Israel was different. Israel defended itself against > attack, preemptively the second time, and got bigger. As I've said earlier, > it gave the Israelis a buffer zone - particularly at the waist of the > country - that if I were a general I would like as a protection against > the next attack. It's an old military adage that you should fight your war > somewhere else. Never on your home turf. > > The Israelis are not going to give up Israel and go to central Africa or > something. They are a fixture - in spite of the fact that the Arabs refuse > to recognize her. As I've mentioned, their children are taught that the > area known as Israel is really Palestine. That's what their maps show. This > is perhaps why the Arab States have never recognized Palestine as a > separate state. They prefer the present state of flux and do very little to > help. > > In fact, they appear to hinder any progress - promoting Hamaas and making > Arafat's life pretty miserable. > > About the only way to get through the present impasse is for us to persuade > Israel voluntarily to withdraw from the West bank. We could perhaps achieve > this if the US were to write a mutual defence treaty with Israel. If either > is attacked, the other rushes to help. > > Major problem is the Jewish settlements in the acquired areas. How many > people are involved? How many Jews would need to be relocated in Israel? Is > it a few thousand, tens of thousands - what number would need a new home > inside Israel? > > Perhaps part of any deal would be a requirement that the Arab states redraw > their maps to show Israel. Actually, it would be interesting to see the > reaction of the Arab leaders to a possible withdrawal. I suspect they would > not support it (except openly for PR purposes). > > Nor would the settlers necessarily agree. The Jews have a history of > displacement, eviction, pogroms. (Most affecting to me was the show > "Fiddler on the Roof". To see the people you have begun to know and enjoy > forced to leave their homes was poignant.) > > Then there is the attachment of people to their land - a profound > characteristic of humanity. On the other hand, I understand many young > Israelis are not enthusiastic about staying far from the attractions of the > cities. The ones who wish to stay put may be the middle-aged and old > settlers - but they may be persuaded. > > Back in the 60's I had a radio program called Dialogue. I decide to have a > special program "The Arab-Israeli Dialogue". There were plenty who would > speak for the Israelis, but I had trouble finding a Palestinian. I didn't > want student hotheads not interested in dialogue. Finally, I found a > Palestinian surgeon and we finished with a pretty good and sensible meeting > of minds. > > I went on to other things, but I believe Pacifica continued with a series > of Arab-Israeli Dialogues. > > So, I have been in contact with this a long time - and it seems insoluble. > > On the other hand, the Northern Ireland "troubles" seemed insoluble - but > now offer some hope of resolution. > > Harry > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- > > Karen wrote: > > >Chris, here is an interesting commentary on the Barghouti trial from > >Ha'aretz today, along with their Editorial endorsing restraint against > >Hussein if Israel is attacked first. Below, Chris Patten, the EU > >commissioner also writes Cousins and Strangers: the US and EU, for those > >interested. - KWC > > > >HAARETZ/GIDEON SAMET/JEWISH BRAINS IN CHAINS @ > >http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=220933&contrassI D > >=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y > >Opening paragraphs: "A government eager for a show trial; a Palestinian > >leader accused of murder; a judge with a feisty personality; a lawyer who > >didn't inherit his grandfather's best genes; an atmosphere charged with pain > >and desire for revenge. With ingredients like that, it couldn't be a tasty > >stew. But that's what's cooking at the pointless trial of Marwan Barghouti > >in Tel Aviv. > > > >Again, it has become clear that nothing in Israeli life, even the > >white-as-snow courts, can escape the stain of 35 years of corrupting > >occupation. Not even common sense has survived. > > > >Barghouti, 43 years old, was kidnapped half a year ago and is now being > >tried for killing 12 Israelis and wounding about 100. Even the army and the > >government, who prefer quicker ways of neutralizing terror activists, > >realized it was best not to gun down the leader of the Tanzim and the > >Al-Aqsa Brigade. He is a member of the Palestinian parliament, a strongman > >around the Palestinian Authority and an Oslo supporter. Assassinating him > >would set off a God-awful mess. > > > >The government decided on a trial (although the Shin Bet disagreed). > >Someone less rash might have told it that show trials also give the accused > >an opportunity to open a big mouth. Barghouti, of course, denied that the > >state has any right to prosecute him, and sounded off in front of the > >cameras. Actually - and no demagogic protests will help - he said what the > >members of the Jewish underground said when they were tried by the British > >in Mandatory times." > > > >HAARETZ EDITORIAL: WESTERN IRAQ FIRST @ > >http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=220958&contrassI D > >=2&subContrassID=3&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y > >Opening paragraphs: "Prime Minister Ariel Sharon left his meeting with > >President George Bush at the White House on Wednesday with a sense of > >satisfaction. Bush may have equipped him with a "road map" for progress > >toward the establishment of a Palestinian state, but navigating according to > >that map will only begin after the military campaign Bush plans against the > >Iraqi ruler, Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi issue therefore was the focus of > >Sharon's discussions with Bush and his administration's officials. > > > >On the rhetorical level, Bush's comments at the end of his meeting with > >Sharon can be interpreted as encouragement for Israel to use its right to > >respond militarily to an Iraqi attack. Bush formulated his words as an > >"assessment" and not a position, and even defined the type of Iraqi attack > >that would justify an Israeli reaction - an "unprovoked" attack - and that > >could be interpreted as possible reservations from an Israeli preemptive > >attack. But the legalism is not significant. In the eyes of the Americans > >watching their president, and perhaps in Saddam's eyes too, this was Bush > >standing up, alongside Israel. If this is an element that deters Saddam > >(and that's not self-evident, since Saddam, for his own reasons, may want to > >provoke Israel into a reaction), then Bush's remarks were welcome. > > > >PATTEN: COUSINS AND STRANGERS THE US AND EU @ > >http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=220934&contrassI D > >=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y > >Chris posted: > >Palestinian territories are "the largest detention camp in the world" -- > >Britain's ambassador > > > >British envoy's criticism angers Israel By Alan Philps in Jerusalem > >UK Telegraph 15/10/2002 > > > >Britain's ambassador to Israel has angered its government by describing the > >Palestinian territories as "the largest detention camp in the world". > > > >Sherard Cowper-Coles accused soldiers of humiliating and harassing > >civilians. He put his complaints to Maj-Gen Amos Gilad, the officer in > >charge of the welfare of Palestinians under occupation, after a tour of the > >West Bank which he is said to have found shocking. > > > >After his comments were leaked to the press yesterday, a senior Israeli > >official said: "The ambassador has forgotten that the British mandate is > >over. He went too far." > > > >British officials said the criticisms were co-ordinated with Whitehall after > >Gen Gilad visited London, where he was asked to explain why 3.5 million > >Palestinians were effectively locked up. > > > >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F10%2F15%2Fw m > >id15.xml > > > >Outgoing Mail Scanned by NAV 2002 > > > > > > > > > >--- > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002 > > ****************************** > Harry Pollard > Henry George School of LA > Box 655 > Tujunga CA 91042 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Tel: (818) 352-4141 > Fax: (818) 353-2242 > ******************************* > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/2002 >
