Cute Harry M'Friend, Trade is a system or should I say "Free Trade" (judged a "natural" system) is as the natural feeding of the forest population as theorized and projected by the Environmentalists. Either way the "let it be" mentality uses the same rational. Which I consider to be time bound and more than a little irrational.
As for intrinsic knowledge, all value is knowledge and to judge something as impossibly intrinsically valuable is to judge the person making the judgment in the first place. Therefore the intrinsic exists in the mind of the person making the observation in the first place. To speak of it as extrinsic to the object is to deny the relationship between the object and its observer. Math denies this possibility which is one of the problems with Math. (if its that then its not this.) Object-relations is something that English is at home with but not much of the rest of the world. Who is to say that the rock is not present in the dialogue with the faster tempo of the glob of protoplasm sitting next to it? This is one place where I believe the existentialists came close to "getting it." At least I feel that Martin Buber "got it" in ich und du. I thoroughly enjoyed the George article you sent in the same way that I enjoy Brahms or Schubert but I do not perceive the same world as they and I do not believe in the same Gods. The fact that I can sing them beautifully does not mean that I am superior but only later to and more broad in my experience. That is knowledge and value but not in a hierarchical sense which is the arrogance that Jevons in his Unitarianism foisted off on the rest of the world and which the Friedman's of the world interpreted talmudically. Ray Evans Harrell, artistic director The Magic Circle Opera Repertory Ensemble, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ray Evans Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "futurework" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:09 PM Subject: Re: A Look at the "REAL" > Ray, old friend, > > All the invisible hand really referred to was trade. As a free trade > doesn't take place unless both sides benefit from the exchange, the result > is that the whole trading community is better off "as if by an invisible > hand". > > The free self-interested individual actions produce a community that is > better off - perhaps by exchanging some of their increased well-being to > attract a chorale to the community. Or , maybe prosaically replacing their > muddy streets with stones and tar. The everyone will have dry feet when > they get to the performance. > > Nothing could be more natural than nature. > > However, with commendable sleight of hand you changed "intrinsic value" to > "intrinsic knowledge - an entirely different concept.. > > That's real process - I mean progress. > > Harry > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------- > > > Ray wrote: > > >Environmentalists are Laissez Faire about the environment, demanding that we > >trust "natural" or "invisible hand" systems which we Indians know were not > >"invisible at all" when it came to the forests Europeans loved when they > >first arrived. > > > >Genetics is an argument for intrinsic knowledge in opposition to extrinsic > >knowledge. Process Harry! Process. > > > >Ray Evans Harrell > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Ray Evans Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "futurework" > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:40 PM > >Subject: Re: A Look at the "REAL" > > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > Laissez-faire and laissez-aller are cute expressions describing how men > >and > > > women should be free. > > > > > > I don't understand your reference to the jungle of the environmentalists. > > > > > > However, there is no such thing as intrinsic value. So, again, I don't > > > understand how you relate this non-existent value to the geneticists. > > > > > > It should be noted that in a free market "profit" is almost always wages. > > > Of course, in a modern command economy, profit can be practically anything > > > -- particularly after it's been well scrubbed by the your local > > > neighborhood accounting firm. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------- > > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > > > >Have you ever contemplated the parallel between Laissez Faire and the > > > >Environmental belief in the goodness of the Jungle? Have you ever > > > >thought about the parallel between the economic concept of "intrinsic" > > > >value and the "genetic" arguments that we have been discussing on this > >list? > > > >Have you thought of how the paradox is that in the former case the > >Laissez > > > >Faire people in the market would never allow a Jungle to lie fallow and > >in > > > >the latter the geneticists are the ones who advocate all material value > >as > > > >extrinsic to the thing itself, being grounded in what humans decide makes > >it > > > >valuable. > > > > > > > >A paradox maybe? Or should we say that John Calvin was not such a nut > > > >afterall? That the genetic argument is just another version of the > > > >doctrine of the Elect and that only the Elect have the right to define > > > >value. I discovered this quote below while rethinking the works of > >Walter > > > >Kerr the New York Theater Critic from my college days. I was given > >this > > > >wonderful book that Father Burghardt quotes by a neighbor pianist friend > >who > > > >went on to become a psychoanalyst and later to become the first of my > > > >friends to die young. Her name was Pamela Gunnell and I say that name > >at > > > >this time as a remembrance and a thanks for sharing the work of this fine > > > >American theatrical thinker. Kerr was the first one to put his finger > > > >squarely on the trigger point, that has destroyed the serious Arts in > > > >America, that many more famous economic minds would travel not nearly so > > > >succinctly or so well. > > > > > > > >Ray Evans Harrell, artistic director > > > >The Magic Circle Opera Repertory Ensemble, Inc. > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ****************************** > Harry Pollard > Henry George School of LA > Box 655 > Tujunga CA 91042 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Tel: (818) 352-4141 > Fax: (818) 353-2242 > ******************************* > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 >
