Re: [Futurework] The world of work

[Ed Weick]

Charles Brass:   But my fundamental point is not affected.  First the serfs and peasants knew nothing of a distinction between 'work' and 'life'.  Their life was their work.  I don't advocate this, I simply note the distinction.    And for this reason, those promoting the industrial revolution had a good selling point - no longer will all of your life be in service to someone else, now only part of it will be.  And unions have been working diligently to reduce that part ever since.   I want to reduce it to zero, which is way below where even the most ardent unionist believes it can get.  They point out that someone has to clean the public toilets.  Well I point out that in our own homes we clean our own toilets (or live in a mess).  In communities people either clean their public toilets or tolerate a mess.  Only in economic societies do people believe it is someone else's responsibility to clean the toilet - and they don't want to know anything about how or when or how much.   Well, cleaning toilets is part of the work which needs to be done in the world.   Most of us do it for some part of our lives, but equally most of us don't want to believe that this is the highest labour to which we can aspire.   I guess, in principle, we should all clean our toilets, but, frankly, I would rather pay someone else to do it.  We have a cleaning lady that comes in once a week because both my wife and I work, or at least I still pretend to.  We pay her quite well, and while she may not be happy to clean the toilet, she is quite happy to walk out of here with her pay.  I'm happy to have a clean toilet and she is happy with her money.  She can't do what I do, and I wouldn't want to do what she does even if I could.  Is there anything so wrong with that?   Elitistly yours, Ed   Ed Weick 577 Melbourne Ave. Ottawa, ON, K2A 1W7 Canada Phone (613) 728 4630 Fax     (613)  728 9382 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Brass To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work Ed Weick replied to my post about the changing world of work by questioning my analysis of life in pre-industrial times.  He noted, correctly, that the nobility in these times lived distinctly different lives from the serfs and peasants - and mused about how much work each did.   Well, there is a lot of romanticism about pre-industrial times (particularly for the idle rich) and I have certainly been guilty of over simplifying things.   But my fundamental point is not affected.  First the serfs and peasants knew nothing of a distinction between 'work' and 'life'.  Their life was their work.  I don't advocate this, I simply note the distinction.    And for this reason, those promoting the industrial revolution had a good selling point - no longer will all of your life be in service to someone else, now only part of it will be.  And unions have been working diligently to reduce that part ever since.   I want to reduce it to zero, which is way below where even the most ardent unionist believes it can get.  They point out that someone has to clean the public toilets.  Well I point out that in our own homes we clean our own toilets (or live in a mess).  In communities people either clean their public toilets or tolerate a mess.  Only in economic societies do people believe it is someone else's responsibility to clean the toilet - and they don't want to know anything about how or when or how much.   Well, cleaning toilets is part of the work which needs to be done in the world.   Most of us do it for some part of our lives, but equally most of us don't want to believe that this is the highest labour to which we can aspire.   Making a job of cleaning toilets creates toilet cleaners and brings in arguments about minimum wages, and occupational health and safety.  Doing the work of cleaning toilets is part of living (just as is using them).   Why are we constrained to thinking of work only in the form of jobs?   Charles Brass Chairman the futures foundation PO Box 122 Fairfield  3078 Australia phone 61 3 9459 0244   the mission of the futures foundation is "...to engage all Australians in creating a better future..."