Harry, I hope Stephen will reply to this. Its absolutely scandalous. How about we see how much is spent on every citizen? Then complain that we don't see any of that although we drive on free highways, our businesses don't have to train the labor from birth and anyone who does train their labor knows the expenses you quote are low. We have the lowest tax structure in the Industrialized world.
Private schools are sweat factories for the teachers and religious schools are oppressive. Note the hyper aggressivity of the religious school graduates on today's talk shows in the Media. They are almost all graduates of the Catholic school system. They also are provincial and slanted in their reporting. Not that the other side isn't as well. But don't put them up as paragons. Our former Catholic Mayor was until 9/11 dubious at best and took credit for a decline in crime that was nationwide. Our current Jewish mayor is unpopular but still has a declining crime rate and isn't nearly as offensive ethnically as was the Catholic. And he certainly doesn't use city funds to sue his critics and bankrupt them. I could point out that this mayor also puts millions of his own money into the city as well to make up for some of the cuts. A far cry from the litigious Catholic lawyer we had for eight years. He was no friend of the public schools while this man is effecting the most complete and thus far logical overhaul of the schools in the thirty years of my residency in New York. So stop putting those schools, where I taught, up as paragons of virtue. They had wonderful people that were poorly paid and when I taught there as a non-Catholic they barely paid their nuns. Now its different and they have a better teacher package than the other religious schools but they are still sweatshops. Thats nothing to be proud of when we pay our teachers so poorly in the public schools. Also with all of the guff that teachers take because they ARE highly trained and poorly paid and guilt determines that they must be nuts to do so, its a wonder that anyone's son or daughter respects them enough to learn. Especially if the parent is working in the private sector benefiting from the corporate dole and tax breaks. Perhaps you think those million dollar social events are more important than schools but I don't. I work in the business and I know how much they pay for those private events. I've put schools together and if you pay an hourly wage to professionals with NO bureaucracy, the cost comes in at $18,000 per student and that is better than the colleges. We beat the Juilliard cost by $4,000 with a comparable faculty but we had no school facility to keep up. Mass education is a problem but your answers are no answer and your complaints about professional teachers are also dubious. The problem IMHO lies in the concept of mass education itself and the fact that no one seems capable of understanding the purpose of the curriculum and how all of the courses fit together. Instead we get amateur school boards dallying with curriculum and destroying the latest advances with parental incompetence and removing necessary courses for cost reasons and then we complain. Well your answer is no answer and from one who has set up private educational programs, your complaints are petty. >From one cranky old man to another, have a nice evening. REH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Straker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE: [Futurework] Local living economies] Stephen, One thing at a time. If politicians who you elect, give a property tax holiday to Walmart, that's your problem. Un-elect them and elect people who think that taxes should apply to everyone. Then go to Walmart, if it pleases you, and enjoy the service, the goods and the pleasant atmosphere. I must say that my only experience of Walmart comes in Poway, near San Diego. A daughter's family is there and when I go for my morning walk around Poway, I am wont to drop in at Walmart to look around - along with other places on a two mile walk. I very rarely buy anything. I can get most things I want cheaper at other places, but my daughter pops in there to get things and she is a good shopper. What is noticeable is that people seem to enjoy shopping there. This "so-called" loss of community argument is without merit, perhaps stimulated by nostalgia. If people sensed any loss they would continue to pay higher prices at the corner store. But, they don't. Given the opportunity, they go to Walmart. I know they are inferior people unable to appreciate the community feelings from which superior people take pleasure, but I happen to think that inferior bargain-seeking people have rights too. (I note that both left and right stand stoutly on the side of democracy - but are rather selective as to the rights the Great Unwashed may be allowed to have.) TAXES I don't know anything about the Fraser Institute, but they are making a good point. I notice that when more tax money is wanted, failure to supply it always becomes the death knell for education, or the road to fewer police and firemen - or, in your case, the end of clean water. But, the con isn't working so well in the States. There is heavy suspicion in the electorate that the money goes to establish bureaucratic empires rather than into actual service. In Los Angeles, the Catholic School District and the Board of Education work in parallel - except the Catholics get far better results from their students. They do this even though proportionally they only have one third of the bureaucracy of the Board of Education. However (you have to be inside to know these things) the BOE bureaucracy is under-counted. If you teach one period a week before spending your time in the office - you are counted as a teacher in the statistics. This, though you spend 90% of your time being a bureaucrat. (You know - dam-ned lies.) The average cost per student is now an annual $6,700. In other words, A classroom of 35 brings in revenue from the state of some $235,000 (I've seen many classes with as many as 42 - or $281,000.) Doesn't that seem a lot of money to run a classroom? I wonder if Keith knows how much is spent on an English student? Is it understandable that people turn up a quizzical eyebrow at such an expense and are not eager to pay taxes. According to the government's 2000 National Assessment of Education Progress report, only 30% of students were proficient in science at their grade level, while about one of four high school graduates were functionally illiterate. (I earlier pointed out that of the cream of the crop of high school graduates entering the California University system, something like half require remedial reading. If your private school turned up results like that, you would fire them - but it's not exactly what you can do with a public school. When better alternatives are suggested the teachers union spend scads of money to stop them. Showing, of course their deep and abiding interest in the education of kids. Since the inception of the Department of Education in 1980, more than $550 billion has been routed through the federal bureaucracy. The result? Since, the Feds began poking their noses into the pot in the 60's, SAT scores have dropped by 100 points. Not that that money was all spent on education. The DOE Inspector General admitted to Congress that during the last three years of Clinton they had "misplaced" $450 million. Well, as Dirksen said . . . . Harry ------------------------------------------------------- Stephen wrote: >Arthur: >It's interesting. Most of these arguments were and are used >against foreign ownership in Canada. With little effect. >Canadians voted with their pocketbooks as do most of those >in the US who reap short term savings at the longer term >cost of loss of community, both literally and >figuratively. > > Karen: > > other points to consider ... as the Institute > for Self-Reliance and The Hometown > > Advantage (Stacy Mitchell) document ... > > SS: > This is excellent stuff. And yet, Arthur is > completly right - people "vote" for these things > whenever they're made available. The only cases of > opposition I know of - such as the town of > Greenfield, Massachusetts - occur *before* the > fact when political leadership takes a stand, such > as a city council refusing a zoning or building > permit. > > It occurs to me that in this as in so many things > there is not a proper ACCOUNTING. The reason > WalMart has low prices is because you're paying > for that propane barbecue everywhere else where > its cost is disguised (as Stacy & co. say, in > property taxes, etc.). > > I'd like to see some creative accounting put out > that shows, say, > - the real "price" of a propane barbecue at > Wlamart > - the real "price" of a litre/gallon of gasoline > > This would be, like, a progressive rebuttal to the > right-wing think tanks - like BC's Fraser > Institute - that have learned to garner publicity > with dishonest crap like TAX FREEDOM DAY (when to > much fanfare on the day they put out a > news-release explaining that "until today > everything you have earned has been taken by the > government; only today do you get to keep your own > earnings ..." I always want to say - OK you > buggers, have your tax freedom on 1 January and > we'll follow you around and BILL you whenever you > cost us money ... rise & shine! - flushing the > toilet - 3�, brushing your teeth - 1�, use of > sidewalk - 4�, traffic light - 1� ... and so on. > My goodness those guys make me mad. > > Has anyone done this proper kind of "social cost" > accounting? > > THEN people would have a better idea of whether > they're saving money or whether the convenience is > worth it when they choose Home Depot. > > Stephen Straker **************************************************** Harry Pollard Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 Tel: (818) 352-4141 -- Fax: (818) 353-2242 http://home.attbi.com/~haledward **************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/2003 > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
