1) ATi did provide OpenGL support in their universal drivers, but this only worked on the RagePro LT in PowerBooks *IF* you had Apple's ATi accelerator already installed, since Apple used ATI's reference drivers to write the drivers for the LT chip.
2) ATi does not provide core drivers for laptops, never did, never will. They state this on their website, and the lack of ability to get drivers for any laptop chip from them for the Mac helps prove this. The only way I can get OS 9 video drivers for the LT is to install OS 9, there is no third-party way to do it.
The OpenGL/RAVE argument is moot because they are APIs, you can slap any API onto any chipset you like with interoperability. As shown by the support for Rage, RAVE, and OpenGL acceleration under OS 9 (Glide was 3dfx's answer to RAVE, before a standard 3D API came out, OpenGL). Heck, ATi could have supported Glide, but why support the competition? I personally am not expecting phenomenal performance from an LT chipset... but leaving a 3D chipset disabled for *3* years is borderline arrogant. Especially when the laptop in question was at about one year of age when OS X shipped.
Sure it is a little late now to really do anything because now the chipset IS ancient. However, I don't agree with Apple's position to kill support for a chipset that they pushed as being one of the best laptop chipsets a year later. My complaints come from the facts at hand (it IS possible to do OpenGL on it, ATi showed that... and ATi has had the stance for years that laptop chipsets were the machine vendor's responsibility... and the LT was in the Lombard in 1999, about a year before the final OS X rolled out of the gate), and the decision to cut off support of certain types to machines coming out the same year as OS X. Sure they are a computer company, but that doesn't mean the decision is always correct.
On Oct 28, 2003, at 9:28 PM, David M. Ensteness wrote:
On Oct 28, 2003, at 6:20 PM, Krevnik wrote:
Nope, sorry... don't buy that. There is an ATIRagePro.kext and ATIRageProGA.plugin (2D acceleration) and the GA plug wasn't even activated for the Lombard until 10.2.4, you needed a hack before that. The RagePro.kext refers to a non-existant ATIRageProGL.bundle for OpenGL acceleration. There is no 3D acceleration for the Rage Pro chips. The 128 Pro is NOT the same as the Rage Pro, but newer and appeared in the Pismos.
Not to be too rude but I don't care if you buy it, its the case. ATi's Rage II, RagePro, and RageProLT were not accelerated prior to 10.1.5 but were after. There is documentation of it, go look it up yourself if you care about the truth of the matter, you can find it at Apple's Knowledge Base, at XLR8yourmac.com and many other sites that covered the issue.
This debate boarders on stupid.
A lot of people are arguing a lot of misinformation and opinion mixed with fact on the issue of this class action suit. The fact is people's expectation [those that brought on the suit and agree with it] was different from the reality of features and performance.
I do not feel Apple is at fault in this matter but when one's expectation is different from reality it is very likely that blame gets assigned and people assigned it to Apple. While I happen to believe that this blame is based on an inaccurate expectation and is misplaced, I don't know that it matters much in the scheme of things. As with other issues, if people want to blame, they will justify it, sometimes only to themselves, sometimes to the masses, and sometimes to the legal system.
Another fact that is neglected. Apple did not write the ATi drivers for the ATi chipsets. ATi did, this is true of Classic Mac OS and Mac OS X. At the time, before the 10.1.5 update was released, people complained it was Apple not choosing to support it to "force" them to go buy new Macs. This argument gets brought up a lot, its generally false although I am sure there are cases when it is true.
Now, regarding video support. It is my understanding from a lot of reading I have done that the RagePro and RageII chipsets never did OpenGL under Mac OS 8 or 9, they did RAVE. At the time RAVE and GLIDE [from 3dfx] were competing and OpenGL was starting to enter the fray. Since none of us know the exact facts, think about this once and see if its not reasonable.
Apple sells a Mac, it has a chipset from a third party in it. The third party includes driver support. Apple puts out new system software, the third party doesn't update their driver. Its the third party's fault right? So according to that we should blame ATi. However, what if the chipset can't do the stuff we want it to do, ie, what if it can not support OpenGL acceleration. Whose fault is it then? Apple for embracing OpenGL in OS X? ATi for not making a fully compliant OpenGL graphics chipset? Sadly, somethings are not anyone's fault, they just are, and they are often things we don't like.
Is what I just proposed true? We don't know. However, its just as likely true as the complaints are so it deserves equal consideration.
David
-- G-Books is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and...
Small Dog Electronics http://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives |
-- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | & CDRWs on Sale! |
Support Low End Mac <http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html>
G-Books list info: <http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html> --> AOL users, remove "mailto:"; Send list messages to: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To unsubscribe, email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For digest mode, email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subscription questions: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Archive: <http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/>
---------------------------------------------------------------The Think Different Storehttp://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---------------------------------------------------------------
-- G-Books is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and...
Small Dog Electronics http://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | & CDRWs on Sale! |
Support Low End Mac <http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html>
G-Books list info: <http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html> --> AOL users, remove "mailto:"; Send list messages to: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To unsubscribe, email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For digest mode, email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subscription questions: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Archive: <http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/>
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---------------------------------------------------------------
