On Jan 26, 2005, at 16:01, Clark Martin wrote:
AFAIK there is no AppleTalk over IP in OS X.
I don't know enough to contradict this statement, but I wonder if it is true. OS X-to-OS X is likely using Rendezvous and AFP. As I said, my System 7 box can connect to my OS X box if I use the "Server IP address" button when the AppleTalk checkbox is unchecked in OS X. Isn't that AppleTalk over IP?
Rendezvous is a way of providing network browsing like with AppleTalk but on IP instead. You can do this with Network Browser in pre-OS X. I don't think Network Browser uses Rendezvous but a similar method. Rendezvous is a multi-platform protocol.
AT over IP was used at one time to connect two separate AppleTalk networks using the Internet or an IP connection that wouldn't support AppleTalk.
This totally makes sense to me.
Say you had two physically separate offices both using AppleTalk extensively. You want each office to access the other but the only connection is the Internet which is IP only. You set up AppleTalk routers at each end that tunnel the AppleTalk packets over the IP connection. Now you can print to an AT printer in one office from the other.
If you configure an interface for using IP and you check the AT box you are configuring it to use IP and AT, not IP over AT nor AT over IP. They are two distinct network protocols having nothing to do with each other normally.
OK, so checking the box configures it to use AppleTalk over the selected interface - that is, AppleTalk over Ethernet or AppleTalk over wireless or whatever. No problem. Makes sense.
What makes me wonder is, like I said, my System 7 clients can still connect regardless of whether that box is checked. It's just that if I don't check the box I have to specify the IP address in Chooser, but if the box is checked Chooser sees my OS X box. If the box is unchecked and I specify the IP address in Chooser, I guess I'm using AppleTalk/IP correct?
NO! You are using APPLESHARE over IP. No AppleTalk is involved. If you are using an IP address you are using IP.
Put another way: if AppleTalk isn't active on a server, yet I can still contact that server (via IP address), how is it working? :)
IP. It is just like using a web browser or ftp client or e-mail program.
OK, hmm... now that I think about it I think I should start some tcpflow or tcpdump sessions and just answer my own questions. ;)
The AppleShare over AppleTalk/IP is a common erroneous idea largely due to the confusion stemming from the use of "Apple" in much of Apple's technologies.
They sure do like to put "Apple" in the names of their technologies!
Using "Apple" in a lot of it's terms isn't so bad, the biggest problem is how those AppleXXXX phrases get multiple uses.
LocalTalk (twisted pair 230.4Kbps) was originally called AppleTalk in addition to the higher level network protocol. When Ethernet was added to the mix the name of the low level hardware protocol was changed to "LocalTalk".
The term AppleShare gets applied to:
1 The Chooser RDEV "AppleShare" you use in pre-OS X to connect to servers.
2 The "AppleShare Filing Protocol" (AFP) overall "AppleShare" protocol.
3 In various forms the AppleShare Server software that Apple sells. To
make matters worse it's not clear what the official name of this software is,
it seems to change a little from version to version.
Then there is Airport the wireless card, Airport the base stations, Airport the wireless software and not to mention Airport Extreme and Airport Express.
Let's not forget iMac, iBook, Power Mac and PowerBook. Each of those have numerous models, many are quite different with no difference in name or "Model Family".
Thanks - I'm still trying to figure it all out. :)
-- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting
"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"
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