on 6-12-05 9:02 AM, Yersinia at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> At any rate, you could put together an Internet-capable box for $150, >> tops. > > WAY less than that.
To clarify: $150 is a reasonable price point for a machine that should allow you to surf with a minimum of unpleasant physical side effects (sharply increased blood pressure, large patches of hair missing, fist-sized holes in your walls, etc.) > I have TWO Internet-capable Macs: my Beige G3/266 which was a $15 steal my > boyfriend found for me on Fleabay, and my Powerbook 5300c, a $30 steal I found > myself on the Swap List. Even my original G3/233, though it's now dead, only > cost me $35 on the Swap List last year. Yes, I understand that you were able to get some real bargain basement prices on machines. However, looking at the speeds listed, I can only say: I salute your patience and fortitude. At the same time, I can't help but notice that the costs you mention are far from total. Things like, say, the cost of a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and shipping for them aren't mentioned. And because not everyone has your patience and fortitude, I'd like to see a CPU upgrade in there as well. By my reckoning, that adds another $50 or so to the cost. I've seen 500MHz upgrades on the Swap List for $50 or so on multiple occasions; that's where the number comes from. Besides, I think we can agree that it's always nice to have a project come out *below* a given estimate for a change. [smile] > The inveterate cheapskates on the PCI-Powermacs list >(http://lowendmac.com/lists/pci-powermacs.shtml) can help > school you on how to squeeze the most out of a PCI box for Internet use. > This is true -- as a former member of the PCI list (and user of a PM > 7200/120 from summer 1996- spring 2004), the folks on that list are > wonderfully knowledgeable and resourceful. They absolutely can and will > teach/help anyone about how to get optimum utilization of their PCI Macs. Right. And when you read the *entire paragraph* I wrote, it's clear that pointing that out is the intent. > However, James, please let's not call the PCI listers "inveterate > cheapskates," OK? [rolls eyes] Am I being pulled over by the Sensitivity Police? Fortunately, I'm in California and am quite used to this sort of thing. Here goes: The Short Version: Why are you even taking exception to a remark made about a list that you've just told us you're no longer even a part of? These people can't defend themselves? As if they needed to. The Long Version: Google for the word "cheapskate." Look at the first page of results. Are any of these uses of the word demeaning? For example, the first result is a newsletter called The Cheapskate Monthly. Are the people who subscribe to/read this newsletter Terrible People? The "about" page of that site says: > I am certain that many of you are completely turned off by the term > cheapskate. At first, I was too. But please hear me out. I had to come up with > a term that implies the complete opposite of a spendthrift, and I think > cheapskate fits the bill. Give it time--it will grow on you. ...and I'd like to think that was the context in which I was using the word. I'm sorry it didn't strike you that way. Please go back and read the entire post and the intent should become clear. The people on the PCI list get major respect from me because no one knows how to squeeze more out of an old box for less money then they do. No one. G3s and above are a better way to go if you have more money, but they tend to cost more than the older boxes because they are viewed as having more life left in them. That's why I would send "Easy" (or anyone else) to the PCI list if the funds are low...the checks are slow...and there's a need to get online. We've all been there. And, yes, I am aware that some people aren't trying to wring the most out of an old(er) machine simply because they have to. Sometimes, it's just nice to know that you're making the most of what you have. Hopefully, we've all been *there,* too. > There are plenty of good reasons why some people don't plunk down > hundreds or thousands of bucks on computers. Right, and you gave some good ones. I think I can sum up your reasons by saying: when people buy things (anything) they like to have money left over. > And, there's nothing wrong with living frugally -- that's not synonymous with > nasty people. No, it isn't. At all. A Google for "frugal" (Froogle?) doesn't reveal an association with "nasty people" any more than one for "cheapskate" does. You're bringing up a connotation that doesn't appear to be widely supported. As an aside, I've always considered "frugal" a Dr. Seuss-like creature (_The Dreaded Frugal_). But that's just me. > Yes, there IS such a thing as an "inveterate cheapskate," and > perhaps some of the PCI listers might fall into that category (just like > there are cheapskates in all walks of life), Labeling a person an "inveterate cheapskate" is rendering an opinion, not necessarily making an assumption/condemnation about their entire lifestyle. I do think it's fair to say that people may be "cheap" ("frugal" if you like) in regards to some purchases in order to have the money to allow them to spend more on others. Can you please give me *some* credit here? I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that an "inveterate cheapskate" is: someone who makes a habit out of...saving money. This is a bad thing? > but my point is, and with all due respect, I consider that to be a derogatory >term and I don't much care for the assumption And my point is, with all due respect, that a Google search shows that there are a great many Other People who _don't_ consider "cheapskate" a derogatory term, and even consider it a "point" of honor. > that people who won't spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for computers are >either bad people or cheapskates who are rolling in extra money they simply >refuse to spend. I never used the phrase, "bad people;" you did. If I was convinced the people on that list were so "bad," why would I give the URL for subscribing to it? The phrase "rolling in extra money" is yours, too. Please stick to what I actually wrote. > "I am not humble. There, I said it. They're MY opinions, dammit, and I > mean them. They may be wrong, and they may change, but they're mine!" Your opinions certainly are yours...as are mine. And they may indeed be "wrong." I'm afraid you'll have to explain to me what a "wrong opinion" is, though. But...I hate it when people "read in" things that just aren't there. Admittedly, we all do that from time to time. I can only hope that I've demonstrated that no ill-feeling was intended in what I said in my original post. Here's a fellow who seems to have "got it": on 6-12-05 3:04 PM, nhc_design2004 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This message sent from a 7100 - I'm an inveterate cheapskate and proud of > it. > > :-) Finally, I'm a *current* member of that list. I don't think I'd spend time insulting myself. Particularly not when I'm surrounded by people who are more than happy to do it for me. [turns around to face a sea of eager volunteers] Yours Cheaply, James Fraser Perhaps "partaking of the Low End lifestyle" sounds better? Read this article: http://lowendmac.com/musings/04/0423.html and decide. -- G-List is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and... 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